68 responses to “What’s Wrong With Being White?

  1. I peeped her post. She disabled comments though. Wack.

    But yeah…Javaqueen doesn’t seem to understand that being able to not “care if you’re black or white” is a luxury afforded to those who aren’t necessarily affected by this form of systemic racial oppression.

    It’s like…if you don’t care about race so damn much, stfu then lol.

  2. Thisblackchickscognition,

    I knew she would eventually not allow anyone to reply. She is too afraid of hearing the truth or reality.

    She is afforded the luxury of not having to worry about race like you said. We don’t have that luxury. She can tune out and turn off where we have to deal with it since it is our lives.

    Thanks for the reply.

  3. c

    This is exactly right. You explained it perfectly. i swear i do not understand why this is so hard for folks to get.

  4. C,

    It is so hard because actually giving it the understanding that it deserves evokes feelings of embarrassment and guilt in a lot of people.

    They understand the disparity and to acknowledge it means that you are complacent in it. Meaning that you are a willful participant in a blatantly systemic racist system.

    And most people do not want to be implicated in the very disgusting nature of our society. Everyone wants to pretend they don’t see color or they love black people (or minorities). Yet, if this were so, the disparities that we see would not exist.

    So thus we know that these phony cries of “I love everyone” just isn’t so. This is the epitome of hypocrisy.

    Thanks for the reply.

  5. I want to apologize for my comment on that site. I was the one that said I was offended that choosing the white doll meant low self-esteem. I admit I didn’t go and read the article right away; I just responded without thinking.

    Now I will admit that I am ignorant to race relations as you said, but it doesn’t mean I am a fool (although I admit my comment was probably a bit foolish) and it doesn’t mean I am a bad person. It never WAS an issue for me because I never saw anything wrong with being black. That is a simple, honest statement. That was how I was raised, and that is how I think. I’m not saying that the issues don’t exist, but you have to understand that when some white people “don’t see the problem” it truly means they don’t see the problem. LUCKY US! I mean that with all respect; I am lucky that I never had to see the problem.

    As far as physical appearance, well, hell, of course I see that problem all the time. It kind of put it into perspective when you compared it to the way the media affects women’s body-image. I guess I just see beautiful women – black, white, Asian, whatever – and figure that all that matters is that they are beautiful and I’m not. I guess I never thought about the fact that some black people see people they can’t relate to either, for other reasons.

    I am very glad that Obama was elected, and I voted for him. Not because he is black, but because I respect and trust him to be the best president. I hope you can understand that this is all a little strange to me seeing the different reactions to his ethnicity. I really hope that the discussions that are brought about because of it lead to positive changes. I hope you will lead the way with understanding and teaching rather than being defensive and accusing.

    I came here after I realized that my comment was taken the wrong way, and by that I only mean wrong from the way I intended it. I didn’t “intend” anything; it was just a quick response without much though. If I had known it would offend anyone, I assure you I would not have been so careless. I did go and read the article, and I have more understanding now. I hope you will accept my apology.

  6. “Everyone wants to pretend they don’t see color or they love black people (or minorities). Yet, if this were so, the disparities that we see would not exist.”

    Not Everyone!!! Let me introduce you to some of my retarded kin…..Aryan Nation, KKK, and a host of other sporadic groups of idiots.
    Now, IF everyone were all happy go lucky in their whimsical natures of loving all people, then yes, the disparities would cease to exist.

    However, (and this following rhetoric is all philosophical thought to chew on) I believe mere understanding and acknowledgement of the reality of these aforementioned disparities does not make one guilty of being a willing pariticapnt in a racist system. All it takes, as our government is slowly showing, is a few key people to run the show, despite the true nature of the majority. For one to understand the complexities of societal issues, such as racism, which will most likely exist until the end of humanity, would automatically make them complicit? Under such wording, once understanding is gained, one would be required to eliminate themselves from the world of the living, in order to not being a wiling participant. And by standards of equal mention this would now have to include members of all races. For surely, even being black, and having understanding of what is going on, have you yourself not furthered companies by buying products from white controlled companies that may or may not have been originated by racist men, or are now currently using non-white slave labor to manufacture said products?
    Yes, I’m white, and yes, I’m sure that I benefit from white privilege to a degree, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say that I am complicit in fomenting the continuation of white privilege and overarching superiority of whites over blacks. Afterall, I subside in my life, with little to none over what you have. To have anything less would leave me with almost nothing. Should I, as an example, forfeit everything I own, and force my family to live on the streets with nothing, just to show that I adamantly am opposed to racists and their hatemongering ways?

    Again, this is more philosophical than some sort of misguided attack, like some of your (temporarily ignorant) visitors and other bloggers like Javaqueen.

  7. Mike,

    I totally agree that it isn’t “everyone”. Also, I don’t think that the people are complicit, I think they are complacent, or comfortable in their privilege. They know that racism exists and think “well, I am not personally being racist so I don’t have anything to do with it.”

    I also think that people feel that they can’t stop someone from giving them privilege. So, if we know that we are the ones getting some sort of privilege then what must we do to end that practice? Only those who are getting it can actually work the best to end it.

    I absolutely do NOT think that anyone should have to give up their participation in our society. I just feel that it is all of our duty to be diligent about calling attention to the privilege or the disparity. We can’t combat that which we choose not to see.

    Because some of those “temporarily stupid” folks say they don’t see this or that in an attempt to disprove anything that is told to them about the problem. And that is what I am talking about as being part of the problem.

    Burying our heads in the sand won’t end the problem. We can’t just say that we don’t see color and think that our problems are solved. And that is all I was trying to get across to them.

    Thanks for the reply.

  8. Lusitana

    Not that I want to defend Javaqueen, but if we’re talking about systemic problems, we should also be aware that there’s a class dynamic at work here, too. The elites (and I mean the silver-spoon class that produces morons like W and elevates them to disaster-causing status) WANT us all to be at each other’s throats over race so they can take away our rights, undereducate our children and steal us blind.
    So I think, among other things you could say about that post, J.Q. is a symptom of that. Just as those McCain ads were that said of Obama, “Do we really know who he is?” after he’d been under the microscope for a couple of years. They played up his “otherness” hoping to hoodwink people and the hopeful thing is, it didn’t work.
    Does anyone else think better public education could be key here?Especially history?
    What if black and white kids both learned that one of the first people to die in the Boston Massacre was a black sailor, Crispus Attucks?
    Or that the author of “The Three Musketeers,” Alexandre Dumas, was the descendant of slaves?
    Or that we owe to black inventors everything from blood banks to refrigerators to pencil sharpeners? (OK, I got curious and found an interesting website, http://www.black-inventor.com, where I found a list that the above is a very short part of.)
    I mean, what if the kids all learned about these folks when it WASN’T February, but just as a matter-of-fact part of their education all year long?
    I don’t know what kind of wonderful upbringing birdpress had to not see race in pejorative terms — and birdpress, I am not being sarcastic here, though I am just a tad envious, because mine was something I’ve tried to overcome.
    As I’ve tried to educate myself more, I’ve tried to read up on black history (only when it’s not February), and I have to say, it’s too bad the racists don’t realize what a debt they themselves have to the intelligence, resourcefulness and creativity of black people?
    If I can be allowed a gratuitous racewide compliment here, almost the amazing things that there are to admire about black people of achievement, the thing that stands out to me absolutely the most is this: black moral strength, resilience and generosity of spirit. Yes, racism has warped and twisted far too many blacks and whites both, but somehow there’s also, say, Jackie Robinson. I know it was common in the Black Panther period — and maybe in places now, too — to call blacks who refused to be angry — or at least to act on their anger — Uncle Toms. And frankly, if I were black I’m sure I’d be more inclined to anger than forgiveness. Maybe that’s why I find the resilience and generosity of people like this to be humbling.

  9. Lusitana,

    Great comment. I disagree somewhat with uncle toms refusing to be angry. But that also is true to some extent. I just believe that the uncle tom label is extremely convoluted and encompasses a wide range of things.

    But you seem to have hit the nail on the head and I have to say that there isn’t a whole heck of a lot to add to it.

    Thanks for the reply.

  10. Lusitana,

    I’m impressed.

    Theblacksentinel,

    i posted a couple of comments on that site, I’ m sure you saw. She seems to be a little confused or misguided… I’m not sure which. She responded to me in a cordial way, I tried my best to be cordial and she returned it. Although, she seem like she’s wanting to but can’t get past the brain washing that we as Americans have been subjected too by the ultra rich… Like Lusitana said.
    We are truly all victims of racism whether you’re a racist or not… we’re all affected.
    There is noone alive we can lay the blame on but we are, as Americans, responsible for the continuation of it. Like you say, Theblacksentinel … and talking about not seeing color isn’t a good start. That’s like saying I don’t see sex… oh, i didn’t notice you were a woman… so that must be why my piece is get’n erect. HA!
    Anyway, and as Lusitana said it goes back to education. We must teach our children everything not the revisionist history that the media and some within like to attempt to do. Tell our children the truth.
    I guess here in America we’re so afraid of everything… we’re afraid of gay marriage, we’re afraid of terrorist we’re afraid of the big bad socialism… so what do we stand for? i guess fear.

  11. Damien,

    Well said. And yes I saw your replies. I guess if I too thought that if I was more cordial she wouldn’t have lost what bit of her mind she had. But then I think about how she spoke to C, when she was definitely cordial.

    I seem to come across as an angry black person no matter what I am saying. I have had people jump my stuff even after I was agreeing with them. Go figure. But, I agree with you that not seeing color is a terrible start. We are ALL individuals and our color is a part of us just like our hair color and eye color. We see these difference and should celebrate them.

    And yes, we do stand for fear. We fear everything and need to man up so to speak.

    Thanks for the reply.

  12. I don’t think you came off as an angry black person, maybe cuz i know where you’re coming from.

    theblacksentinel, girl you can’t fall up in the house talking like that to them people. They get intimidated… rather easily… like I told her when someone is trying to communicate hard facts that aren’t comfortable to deal with we HAVE to listen. We have to start listening to each other. Yeah, some of the things you said were tough… but this is the condition of our children. We, as blacks, know this all too well… and yes as lusitana said even she would be angry rather than forgiving.
    This is the type of understanding I’m looking for. Like I posted on her site we should be able to talk about these things just in realizing these things happened people got rich, people died, families broken apart for centuries for hundreds of years Our people were purposely experimented on (Willie Lynch) and I’m sure he wasn’t the only one playing Freud and Frankenstein on his slaves…. and the manipulating of the white slaves/servants by the rich class white class. What i”m trying to say is there is no reason to get defensive when someone is just trying to open your mind to a facet of life you can’t experience except for someone enlightening you. So in closing, whites can choose to listen or continue to be driven by the rich and divide us (the middle class and lower middle class and poor) when we should be working together like we did before we all got taken advantage of and continue to this day. (Bailouts) but we the taxpayers aren’t get’n any of that money and the people that are are already rich. what sense does that make?

    I hope you got all that! HA!

    Love.

  13. BMan

    Hello blacksentinel:

    I’ve been enjoying your blog. I find your opinions to be balanced, and well thought out.

    I came across javaqueen’s blog a few days ago, and
    left her a coment as “Simply Shocked!!!” I believe that one of the three comments that I left on her site is still there (only because if she deleted every one of my comments, the conversation thread wouldn’t make any sense). At any rate, I was quite polite and non-confrontational in each of my posts. The basic point that I made to her was that if she is “open blogging” her opinions on the worldwide web, then she must expect that others may find her blog and disagree with her opinions.

    I mentioned that she could always use a password site if she only wished for her friends to write in and agree with her. I also pointed out that there was quite obviously a little box on the bottom of each of her posting that reads, “Submit Comments.” And that as long as that box is there, her rants about why people want to come to HER BLOG and persecute her for her for opinions doesn’t make sense.

    Of course, she and her “court” are still over there congratulating themselves on avoiding ugly censorship—which is their little codeword for anyone who posts disagreements with what they are spewing. They have the RIGHT to blog whatever they are feeling at the moment, but no one else has the right to disagree with those feelings. Anyone who does so is clearly trying to stifle their right to self-expression or to shut them down!!!

    I don’t think that javaqueen is a monster, or even much of a bigot. She has her own prejudices, as we all do, and I can accept that. But what truly amuses me, is her cluelessly executed intellectual cowardice. The real, but sad, truth is that she is not really intelligent enough to be able to effectively defend the kind of socially complex views that she’s been espousing of late. So, whenever someone takes her on, she just deletes any posts that make more sense than she knows how to deal with, before any of her friends can see it.

    I think that there is a certain prestige that comes with internet blogging. The implication is that you, not only write your opinions, but are also ready to defend and discuss them when the world weighs in at your comment box. But if you are going to simply delete every opinion that contadicts your own, ESPECIALLY if you insist on the illusion that anyone who wishes can comment, then you are perpetrating a fraud. You are simply staging false victories that occur, not due to the strength of your ideas, but rather, due to the your ability to delete all opposing ideas.

  14. BMan,

    I totally agree. If you are wanting only your friends and family who supposedly know how you are and what you mean, only allow “them” to see your blog.

    When you put your blog out there for everyone to see. You will eventually get people who don’t agree with your views. And that, I thought, was one of the points of having a blog. In order to give and get the thoughts of others.

    If not then don’t post controversial bullshit and get mad when you are inundated with alternative views. I guess she won’t be doing that again. And as far as I am concerned it is probably a good thing.

    Thanks.

  15. If all the toys were black it wouldn’t be a problem? Again this is the problem in a majority white nation, the toy companies have to please the most people, that means white. If all the firemen were black, white kids, hispanic kids and everyone race, other than blacks would be in the same boat.

    It is disturbing that you seek out non white toys, even a non human toy, like a car you deem to be too white! What is it precisely that you are seeking, a whole aisle dedicated to black kids? Kids are kids, they should just be able to play with whatever toy they want to, race should not come into it. By the way, Hansel and Gretel are a German folk tale, ergo white. What next, cowboy and Indians are too white and red?

    I agree though that there should be some black toys, so why aren’t the black people within the toy industry producing them? The lack of black representation is down to black people themselves, white people should not feel obliged to create black heroes, black characters and write about black people just to even things up, although many do. Recently the BBC adaptation of the Arthurian legend had Guinevere as black, despite this being an historic impossibility, just to appease minority groups. Where are the black people within these industries and why are they not creating their own characters?

    Once you get into the representation calculations you are on shaky ground, after all if just 12% of the US population is black, surely you should only see one black face for even ten white in the media? Black people are over represented in many areas, music for instance. Most white kids grow up with predominately black musical idols, yet if a parent were to be browsing the CDs and ask if there are any white artists for their white child, well that would be racist.

    I have seen a similar study of pre-school kids in Britain. A group of kids were asked very similar questions but had to chose from photos. The black boy, who grew up on a predominately black estate, surrounded by his black family, chose the blonde haired blue eyed boy as the one who looked the most fun, and the one he’d most like to be friends with (as did all the white kids too – even though there were about 12 kids to choose from and all but one were white).

    He also picked out the black boy as the one that would be the most naughty, and the one he’d least like to be friends with. What surprised me, was that this was from a boy who had had very little interaction with white people, so where had this racist stereotype come from?

    Incidentally the white kids mainly chose a white, black haired boy with a mischievous grin as the naughty boy.

  16. Charlie,

    Why do the toys have to be ALL any one color? I never said anything about toys being all black. I asked to have a choice. You talk about kids being kids and being able to play with the toys they like. Well has it ever crossed your mind that maybe those kids would like a toy that was like them but they had no choice?

    Is it really disturbing that a black person would want a toy for their child with a black face? Is it also equally disturbing that white people go into the store and buy toys with white faces? So why is it disturbing that a black person would actually want to give their child a black role model in hopes of building a positive self image?

    Also, I did not mention Hansel and Gretel needing to be something other than white. I am stating that if they are going to push that then they need to push an alternative. Why should it be one size fits ALL. Just a note, “Indians” are Native Americans and they are NOT red. Also, the first cowboys were black people (look it up), so yes they are too white.

    It is funny that you say that a television station changed a story in order to APPEASE minorities. Well when everything that is on television has white characters are you saying that is done only to appease white people? I don’t understand why it is terrible to do something for people who are not white.

    The reason that these studies are producing the same results is that the places they are conducted have a long history of holding white up to be the one and only thing that is of importance. When you have all toys and all media pumping everyone full of white people then you of course get that result.

    I looked a study with white kids in Asia. They picked the Asian dolls etc. Why? Because they grew up with all media pumping them full of nothing but Asian people, toys etc. They begin to feel that the only thing worth anything or that has any beauty is Asian. It is not rocket science.

    I don’t know where these white kids live that the majority of artists are black. But, even if that were true it isn’t as if that is the only thing they have to choose. It isn’t as if every form of media is geared towards blacks and the little white kid just so happens to live there.

    The moral to the story is that we can’t continue to use that same tired old line that white people are in the majority so that is why everything is geared for them. We don’t allow this to affect the choices we make in life such as if the majority of people like red cars, we won’t make any other color. Or if the majority of men where white dress shirts so their are no other color choices.

    But when it comes to race somehow that is exactly the excuse. Black children should be content with toys, games or any other form of media represented by white children because they are the majority. I am interested to see just how things change when Hispanics are the majority. Which will be happening soon.

    Thanks for the reply.

  17. Charlie, I think you really contradict yourself.

    You say that kids should just be able to play with whatever toy they want to, and “race should not come into it.” Let’s leave aside the fact that kids obviously have little choice about the race of the toys they play with, and the fact that race comes into it when toy manufacturers make mostly white toys, not when people complain about it.

    Because you then offer your theory about how race and toys should work, and it’s definitely not “race should not come into it.”

    Instead, you say that white toy manufacturers are only responsible for producing white toys! You say that there should be black toys, but that they’re the responsibility of “the black people within the toy industry.”

    Again, let’s leave aside the distinct lack of representation of blacks within that industry, and especially within its decision-making ranks.

    You seem to think that race should always come into it. Black toy makers should focus on black toys, to ensure that those toys are fairly represented. Black writers are responsible for creating black characters. And, apparently, you believe that those who cast actors must always consider race above all other considerations, to avoid even one instance in which a black character plays someone you believe must have been white!

    Interestingly, you seem to be well aware that little children are quickly exposed to powerful messages about race, and that this dramatically affects how they view people in our society. Yet you dismiss this with the apparent suggestion that black children pick this up from their families.

    In fact, if you think about it, that black child growing up with his black family probably wasn’t living in isolation on their estate. He probably saw and interacted with white people all the time — and he almost certainly saw countless examples of race on television, in movies, and in books.

    As an aside, and I mean this with all respect: blacks do represent 12% of the U.S. population, but this means there should be one black face for every seven whites, not ten. 🙂

  18. I don’t know where these white kids live that the majority of artists
    are black. But, even if that were true it isn’t as if that is the only
    thing they have to choose. It isn’t as if every form of media is geared
    towards blacks and the little white kid just so happens to live there.

    Are you kidding? On the MTV website they have a list of the most popular artists, they are:

    Lil Wayne – BlackBeyonce – BlackBritney Spears – WhiteT.I. – BlackKanye West – BlackRihanna – BlackChris Brown – BlackT-Pain – BlackPink – WhiteChristina Aquilera – WhiteThat is 7/10 black people, when it should really just be one to be fair. That is the US. The UK top 10 currently has 5 out of the 10 top artists as black, so this isn’t a local phenomena, it is the whole Western World. One only need turn on the TV to see that these days most music artists are black. Britain has a music show, the X-Factor (basically American Idol), it was won this year for a second year running by a black singer, a black group was second.

    By your logic this should be stopped as white kids are growing up with an unhealthy view of the world, when they should have white artists as role models. It is well known that young kids base most of their culture and lifestyle on their musical heroes. What effect is this having?

    Fact is, no one cares, because that would be racist. You don’t hear anyone complain that whites are massively under represented in the music industry, in fact you hear the opposite, black artist Estelle recently claimed that black artists don’t get the breaks in a racist music industry! Why aren’t you complaining about the inequality in this area?

    Well when everything that is on television has white characters are you saying that is done only to appease white people?

    But this is the problem isn’t it. That is how people like you see it. Nothing is enough. Take a look at the Children’s BBC, of the 28 presenters, six are non white (28%!). The BBC Newsround, of the seven presenters, almost half are non white (43%). This of course in a nation where 90% of people are white! Again by your logic the BBC are inflicting a horrible thing on white kids, allowing them to see an over representation of non whites on TV. Surely this will lead to all sorts of problems?

    It is people like you, who are constantly complaining that leads to this over representation, which still apparently isn’t good enough. TV star Lenny Henry complained recently that their weren’t enough black faces on TV, look at the links above again and remember that just 2% of the UK population is black! Perhaps you don’t see it in the US, but this constant complaining of under representation in certain areas, whilst keeping quiet about over representation in others, is leading to a backlash.

    As for the complaint about not being enough black characters etc, why don’t blacks take a leaf out of women’s books, get of their arses, get out there and write, create and lead, instead of sitting back complaining about quotas. After all if there should be a quota on historical dramas, why not enforce this on all of them? The Nelson Mandela story with 90% white cast? Of course not, that would be ridiculous, but having black people in Britain in the Middle Ages, or even the Dark Ages is acceptable because….?

    I disagree about the studies, it was clear that the black boy had gained a negative view of his own race, from his own race and I think that is key. It is easier to blame others, claim racism at every turn, and give up without trying due to prejudice, but it is becoming increasingly apparent that the problem lies within, not without.

  19. James, I wasn’t talking specifically about toys at that point.

    Black writers are responsible for creating black characters. And, apparently, you believe that those who cast actors must always consider race above all other considerations, to avoid even one instance in which a black character plays someone you believe must have been white!

    People write about what they know, as just 2% of the UK population is black it is difficult for white writers to create black characters, and write about black themes without falling foul of apparent stereotyping or racism, see the claims by the black actor who played Michael in Lost for example.

    Historical accuracy is important, or do you think it is OK for, say in 10 years time, a white actor to play Nelson Mandela? If someone was white, only a white person can play them, the same if they were black. History re-written to be more inclusive? I think that there is a word for that.

    Another example is James Bond, recently there was a campaign for a black James Bond, because this is how things appear to work. Rather than a talented black, creative author or screen writer creating a character, a la Jason Bourne, established white characters must be turned black?

    As for the kid, sure it is easy to blame the media. His mother split from his father, and he grew up on a gang ridden black estate. But blame the media for his negative perception of blacks!

  20. The Engineer

    When growing up, my parents were too poor to provide toys. Yes, I had some, but nothing like what the other kids had. When I was young, I attributed the great variety and quantity of toys with great wealth, and that great wealth was attributed to being Caucasian. The mainstream media also reinforces that perception.

    So as I got older, I acquired tools, and I designed and made my own toys. I started out with prefabricated kits, then I would modify those kits, and then I would build from basic materials.

    My suggestion to parents today: buy your children tools. Nobody associates race with a tool. Buy your children basic materials like, wood, paper, cardboards, glue, plastic, paint.
    Find the guy (or girl) in the neighborhood that is tinkering in the garage. Send your children to that guy (or girl) who is tinkering; your children just may learn something.

    I later learned that my friends, who had all those toys and other forms of entertainment, had those nice things because their parents got them for free as some kind of perquisite associated with their jobs. Many of those things were simply taken (stolen). So when their parents lost their jobs or whatever arrangements they had, the toys were lost too.

    Newsflash: in the Caucasian neighborhood in which I was raised, the closest Sears was shut down. If this trend continues, it will become very difficult to get quality tools.

    Thank you for listening.

  21. Charlie,

    The question I asked you about appeasing white people was rhetorical if you could not tell. You were the one that said that putting shows on with black characters was meant to “appease” minorities, so I posed the same question and reversed the race. Think about it, if it doesn’t make sense with white people then it doesn’t make sense with minorities.

    Are you telling me that just because the top artists on MTV are black that white children don’t have toys, television, and other media sources? Are you telling me that the standard of beauty or that the stereotypical person on television is somehow represented by those black artists? Of course not. There are a plethora of images bearing the look of those white kids. They are not growing up seeing everything geared towards blacks, so your argument doesn’t hold water.

    You seem to be one of those interesting people who can find one minority on television or in a movie whether it is the main character or one walking in the background and think that this is all one needs to be able to say that minorities are fairly represented. You really need to stop because you are obviously confused as to the actual problem. The problem isn’t whether or not their is a few stereotypical minority acting in a stereotypical manner to be considered a role model. The problem is that their are more venues in which minority people might like to be able to see themselves. Not every black kid is ONLY into music. So what are they supposed to do, look at the black musician because that is all that is available.

    You also talk about black writers failing to write characters for blacks on television etc. Of course they are there writing their hearts out. Now tell me who runs the television and movie studios? A bunch of black people who just don’t want to have black shows? Or is it run by white people who decide what makes it and what fails? Are you telling me that blacks now need to find a way to raise money and somehow bypass the white owned giant movie corporations and start putting out movies and television which still have to be picked up by white owned television stations, and white owned movie distribution companies. Yep, that makes a lot of sense, NOT.

    And just for your own lack of information, education or whatever, those black children did NOT get their negative view from the black people in their neighborhood. In fact the studies were aimed at marketing not at what they see at home. Which is absolutely the most racist thing I have ever heard. Black children want white dolls because somehow they all see terrible black people at home. Give me a break. If this is true then white kids and every other race of kids who see bad things in their neighborhoods or homes would be picking dolls from elsewhere too. Or is it your contention that only black people have bad neighborhoods so therefor they are the only children who see bad people? Give me a freaking break.

    And what is even more disgusting is that they cast white people in black roles all the freaking time. So if they did the Nelson Mandela story don ‘t be surprised to see a cast of 90% white people. They did a movie about Medgar Evers and the story wasn’t about him, it was about the white lawyer who was trying the murderer for the murder. Yet the movie is called the Medgar Evers story. So don’t act as if it doesn’t happen.

    They are right now doing a movie about the Avatars where they are casting white characters to play a black, Inuit and a Japanese person. And yet you want to cry about some damn remake of some stupid Middle ages fable. Why don’t we do this, ask the white entertainment companies to allow BLACK WRITERS to write stories that pertain to black fables and actually put them on the air. Maybe then no one will complain. Oh yeah, that would be bad according to you, because somehow black people need to bypass the racist industry since they won’t show equality. Blacks need to make their own equality.

    You just don’t get it. The minute minorities begin to boycott these industries in order to save our money for our own studios etc. you will be right there talking about how terrible that is. Or that it is unfair to expect a company who wants us to spend our money on them but doesn’t want to provide us with services. Actually that sounds like a great idea.

    Thanks

  22. Are you telling me that just because the top artists on MTV are black that white children don’t have toys, television, and other media sources?

    Are you telling me that because most of the toys are white that black kids don’t have access to other toys, television programmes, or black people in the flesh? Why is it OK for one group to find their own race elsewhere, but not for another?

    Sure, blacks may be under represented in certain areas, but kids that aren’t into music can follow sports, or watch other TV shows, the Cosby show, the Fresh Prince of Bel Air and the countless other all black TV programmes that are made in the US. White kids that are into music or sports have to ‘make do’ with black heroes so why can’t black kids?

    The England football team for example is now majority black, do white fans complain that they have no heroes to support? No, they support them regardless of colour.

    They are not growing up seeing everything geared towards blacks, so your argument doesn’t hold water.

    Really? So why do kids emulate them in dress, appearance and mannerisms? Where does the word ‘bling’ come from?

    ….one walking in the background and think that this is all one needs to be able to say that minorities are fairly represented.

    Not really. But what do you think should be done? It isn’t a rhetorical question. All black films? All black tv shows?

    Now tell me who runs the television and movie studios?

    OK so there aren’t any ‘black shows’ because of racism? Again what about the Cosby Show, the Fresh Prince, and all those other all black TV sitcoms? Lucky breaks? I am sure that if you worked out the tv shows in the US more than 12% would be geared towards blacks. There is even an all black TV channel!

    Are you telling me that blacks now need to find a way to raise money and somehow bypass the white owned giant movie corporations

    No, just be good at what they do. Besides, why does it have to be geared solely towards blacks, isn’t having black characters enough, or should there be separate programmes entirely even though you all live in the same country, go to the same schools, work in the same jobs and use the same hospitals? CSI has a black main character, is that a black programme or white because he is outnumbered by whites? What is it you are asking for from the media, equality or segregation? Why do you feel the need to have your own tv shows, movies, newspapers, etc?

    Why shouldn’t the majority of the media and toys be white, you live in a majority white country. Again it all comes down to numbers, why would a toy company make a product that will only appeal to 12% of people in the US? A toy that at best only one in eight people in the target market are going to be interested in? Would you?

    Despite what you may think and in response to your earlier comment I have been in situations where I was the only white person in a particular place. I actually spent most of my formative years in a predominantly non white area, so yes I do know what racism is, first hand. I also know that if the roles were reversed, the ‘black media’ would be far less accommodating. I have lived in Africa, despite there being many whites in many of the cities, there are very rarely any whites on television or in the media there but it’s not a problem as Africa is seen as a black continent.

  23. Medgar Evers was murdered, it had to be from the point of view of his lawyer and if his lawyer were black it would not make sense.

    I think you are being overly sensitive, the Exorcism of Emily Rose was about the priest.

    I don’t believe that it is acceptable for white people to play blacks roles either. I wouldn’t watch anything in with a black Guinevere, nor a black Robin Hood, likewise a white Martin Luther King or Blade.

  24. Charlie,

    Really? They couldn’t tell the story like they did for the Martin Luther King Jr. or Malcom X? They didn’t tell their stories from some white mans point of view, so how does this make any sense? I am not being overly critical. Don’t call it the Medgar Evers story if it is about a white lawyer, unless his name is Medgar Evers. And obviously they aren’t looking for you to watch anything with a black Guinivere. It is obviously for a whole other set of people. Not to mention if race doesn’t matter like you said then why not watch it with black people? So when you say that something is wrong with me for wanting to see black faces on the fire men or construction men toys for my child was all a bunch of bull. This just goes to show how hypocritical you are. You want me to accept white toys for my children but you won’t accept black actors for your beloved King Arthur, now that is rich.

  25. Charlie, Charlie, Charlie,

    We are not talking about some toys or some programs. We are talking about NO toys that are not white. At least they don’t have them at Toys R Us. And I am not talking about a doll, as I don’t have little girls. I am talking about Tonka trucks with people inside or ride on trucks with people painted on them. These are white characters.

    I am talking about cartoons where the characters are Caucasian or some other form of white. This isn’t some fantasy land that you live in where blacks are taking over the television and Camelot. I haven’t seen a plethora of black characters who don’t fulfill a negative stereotype. So NO there are not a bunch of great role models on television for blacks. Just because there is a black face does not mean that it is good for children. I don’t know if you would show your children the television stereotype of drug dealers, pimps, burglars, or shuckin’ and jivin’ idiots as good role models for your children, so why should I.

    Sure white people are portrayed in these fashions as well. But the difference is that they also have more than enough alternative stereotypes of the hard worker, the winner, the strong person, the hero or the strong family to counteract those negative stereotypes. Yet they don’t quite want to do that with black characters. And I for one am not going to just settle for some one little black person on an otherwise all white show as something good for my children. Now if you want to watch some jackass black show with one white person on it and tell your children that this is a good portrayal of white people, then by all means have at it. But don’t you dare try and tell me what is good or not for me or my family.

    And the fact that you want to tout to me an ALL BLACK channel, you really need to go and read my article about such channels. So I won’t bother getting into that again. You ask why do I feel the need to have our own shows. Why do white people feel entitled to have their own shows. Or better yet why do you feel that white people need to have ALL shows about them? Shouldn’t some of the shows or toys be for people other than white’s? I mean even if all things were equal then there would still be a bunch of things for others than whites.

    A majority of men where white work shirts like I said, so why are there other colors out there? Because there are some who don’t want that. Some people want something else no matter what the majority want. That is the point. And you stupidly want to continue acting as if just because white people are the majority they can dictate what everyone else wants to see in the media or toys. That is why there is racial strife. People claim they want racial tension to end but feel that minorities should just go along with white people since they are the majority. Give me a break. You claim that the majority of artists are black singing black styled music. So if this is the case why don’t we do away with any other music? Why don’t we get rid of rock, country or classical and just go with what the majority of people like? Because that won’t fly, as there are a lot of people who don’t like it.

    Like I keep pointing out to you. Just because the majority of people like something one way NEVER dictates the availability of alternatives. Yet, somehow you would like me to believe that only in the case of race should the majority be able to negate the availability of alternatives. That is why racism is prevalent. The fact that those in the majority not only won’t but can’t see anything from the viewpoint of those in the minority. If you cared at all about racial tension or problems you wouldn’t have one problem with minorities having alternative shows etc. No one is forcing you to watch or participate. Yet, you want to force all minorities to have no alternative BUT to be inundated with white toys, media etc. How selfish and idiotic.

    And you claim that you lived in Africa and there weren’t many white programs on. Now wouldn’t you have liked to see them be more accommodating? How do you know if the “black media” would be less accommodating? Where do you get that information? Just because African media was less accommodating? Well let me tell you this, being black is not monolithic. We are all different and have different views believe it or not. I don’t care whether Africa, Europe or America is seen as a black continent a white continent or a melting pot. The fact is that there are people of all races, creeds and religions and they deserve to have the same access to alternatives to the majority like anyone else. So don’t give me your crap about racial continents. It doesn’t fly.

  26. The Engineer,

    I agree with you completely. Not only will you not have to worry about the message a toy or the company is sending but your kid will be picking up some much needed skills. Not to mention my son is content with a bunch of boxes or plastic bowls. He also has the most fun with one of my old computers or laptops. He loves the technology. Both his dad and I are geeks to the max with a plethora of tech gear for him to dabble with.

    Thanks for the reply.

  27. The Engineer

    I simply cannot believe my eyes as I read Charlie’s commentary. I thought that I time traveled back 40 or 50 years.

    I did see something that I felt was slightly amusing, and I would like to take a paragraph of Charlie’s and rewrite it to fit my situation:

    “Despite what you may think and in response to your earlier comment I have been in situations where I was the only NON-WHITE person in a particular place. I actually spent ALL of my formative years in a predominantly WHITE area, so yes I do know what racism is, first hand. I also know that if the roles were reversed, the ‘WHITE media’ would be far less accommodating. I have lived in AMERICA, despite there being many NON-WHITES in many of the cities, there are very rarely any NON-WHITES on television or in the media there but it’s not a problem as AMERICA is seen as a WHITE continent.”

    The capitalized words are mine.

    To The Black Sentinel,

    I am so glad that you have found alternatives to Toys-R-Us toys for your sons. I have a suggestion: find a book on paper airplanes. All you need is paper, glue, tape, and scissors. Your sons will have so much fun.

    Thank you for listening.

  28. OK, first of all I took a look at Tonka, their toys have bright blue, green and purple eyes. No one has eyes like that! As for the figures, they are yellow! Do you think white kids play with them and think, ‘Wow, he looks like me,’ ?

    I don’t know if you would show your children the television stereotype of drug dealers, pimps, burglars, or shuckin’ and jivin’ idiots as good role models for your children, so why should I.

    Maybe you should drag your kids out the 70s then? Seriously though, if you don’t find the role models on TV (and let’s face it, who does?) then surely you have some at home? Contrary to what you may believe, the primary role model for young boys is their father.

    And I for one am not going to just settle for some one little black person on an otherwise all white show as something good for my children

    Sure, why have something that is inclusive when you can have something that only black people can enjoy. It really sounds to me like you won’t be happy unless everything is black, having one black, two black or even several black characters isn’t enough, everyone needs to be black? Where does this leave the Koreans, the Chinese the Hispanics, the Native Americans, the Indians and Pakistanis? Should they have their own shows too? That’s not real life, you want your kids to grow up thinking that everyone is black in the US?

    I am sure that you’d be the first person to complain if a white person were to say that they want all white TV shows, all white toys, all white media as they don’t want their kids growing up with black role models, it would be down right racist. Coming from a black person doesn’t make it any less so.

    Why do white people feel entitled to have their own shows.

    They don’t, they share. A concept which seems lost on you. There are no TV shows, (other than historical dramas) that preclude black people. Yet you are asking for ones that preclude whites. TV shows in America aren’t all about white people, they are about Americans and reflect US society. If you feel excluded, then frankly that is a problem you have with yourself, perhaps something to do with the self esteem problem you mentioned earlier. I didn’t feel excluded watching the Fresh Prince of Bel Air, I am not black nor even American, it’s a TV show, not a blue print for how to live your life.

    A majority of men….don’t like it.

    Yes but you do have a choice, black TV channels, black TV programmes, black toys, black music. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean that it isn’t there. No one has taken away your choice, like the classical music in a big store, you just have to work a little harder to find it, that is what happens when you have a minority taste. If you don’t like the black TV channel, tough luck. It is aimed at blacks, if it doesn’t fulfil it’s role the problem lies with the creators, and frankly black people as now it seems you are seeing that skin colour doesn’t mean everyone likes the same thing, right? Again clearly black TV is aimed at the majority of blacks, if you miss out, well you may have to find something, heaven forbid….non black! At least you have a choice of watching mainstream tv which is aimed at everyone. White people only have mainstream TV.

    Like I keep pointing out to you. Just because the majority of people like something one way NEVER dictates the availability of alternatives.

    Yes it does. Why do you think you can’t buy a BETA MAX any longer? Why do you think that HD DVDs are so cheap? Why can’t you buy a CRT TV anymore? Why aren’t there many record stores selling vinyl anymore? Demand dictates everything. Just ask a left handed person.

    I never suggested that minorities shouldn’t have their own shows, tv channels etc, but racial tension works both ways. When minorities forget that they are minorities in a democracy (ergo majority rule), it causes racial tension. When minorities demand more than their equal share, it causes tension. You may have to work harder than white people to find things to suit your requirements, but that is par for the course for minorities, be they blacks, vegans, Hindus, or tall people. Would you say that people who are especially tall should have a dedicated clothes section in every store, a selection of every possible design, just in case they decide to buy it? No, you wouldn’t, it would be an insane demand. They have less choice, and they accept it.

    Now wouldn’t you have liked to see them be more accommodating?

    No, it was Africa and just something you accept.

    We are all different and have different views believe it or not.

    The most sensible thing you’ve said, and there lies the problem. Just having something as ‘black’ doesn’t cover all the bases. So you have to compromise, like everyone else.

    Why don’t you think about it for a moment. Let’s say you have all black TV shows, or should I say more of them, but you still don’t associate with them? What then? Several TV channels, one for each possible permutation of black? Then what about Muslims, they should get their own role models too, and then of course there’s both Shias and Shi’ites, then the Hindu’s and of course the homosexuals, the Christians – each denomination of course, immigrants, smokers, fat people, short people….it is quite literally endless, but even if it were just a handful, where would the money come from? Minorities can’t produce enough of an audience/customer base to keep something so specific going, it needs subsidising, from taxes.

    There would never be enough money to go around, it would need to be pulled from other majority projects, and even then it would need to be prioritised, how would that work? Largest minorities first?

    We have a similar situation in Britain, where local councils use taxpayers money to fund countless exclusive minority projects, getting three or four times more funding per year than wholly inclusive projects, to serve 10-20 times less people. This, understandably leads to racial tension. Each group believes that they are a special case, and each group wants money and it is not just divided by race.

    Everything you’ve said could be equally applicable to Muslims, homosexuals and a myriad other groups, do you also believe that there should be Muslim toys, gay toys, over weight toys? Fair is fair after all.

  29. Charlie,

    OK, second of all Tonka makes more than just yellow trucks. They have a group called hands on construction or something like that. They come with a construction worker. Take a look at that worker and then show me the alternative that they make.

    DUH! I never said that the primary job of a toy or any media in my home would to serve as a role model. Yet, contrary to your backwards beliefs black children do have role models outside of television. YET! If we are going to have people on television then we need to ensure that we have a multiple faceted view. Such as with white characters. Sure you have the thief, but you then have the hard worker, the funny guy, the rich guy, the super hero and a plethora of others to see. NOT just a stereotype seen over and over and over.

    “Sure, why have something that is inclusive when you can have something that only black people can enjoy.” So what you are saying is that only black people can enjoy black toys but somehow white character toys are enjoyable by ALL. So basically white characters are ALL inclusive even though they are only representing white people. So, you won’t be happy unless all toys remain white. How does that make any sense? If white toys can be all inclusive, then black toys should be all inclusive as well. But somehow people such as yourself see black toys as excluding others but white toys as something for everyone. Maybe that is the problem. Maybe if you stop seeing it as a black takeover and maybe just maybe it is nothing more than an alternative you wouldn’t be saying such insane things.

    You claim that white people share. Do you mean their culture since the shows are full of white people, their customs their beliefs their humor etc.? So why can’t black people share? Why can’t Asians etc. share? Why is it the only people that are allowed to share are white people? Some of the top shows in America had absolutely NO black characters. Friends, Seinfeld, Frasier and Cheers. The Cosby show which chronicles the lives of black people who had absolutely NONE of the problems of black people, none of the life dramas of black people and practically none of the customs or beliefs of black people. If the show had cast white people it would have made no difference. Yet, I guess to you a black man walking in the background is all inclusive. Why don’t you tell me all about these oh so inclusive top television shows that chronicles more than one side note black person. And since skin color doesn’t mean that everyone likes the same thing then you would have no problem with black characters being included in the media and things such as King Arthur.

    You are trying to make it a one case fits all. That may work in the case of a VCR but not in the case of people. Not unless you are telling me that do to marketing white people have bamboozled everyone into accepting only white media as the norm? Since that is how Betamax and the others went down. People do what they are told. If we decide that EVERYONE is important and make the media fit that thought then everyone would buy into the fact that this is just how it is. But, since we have people who think like you and feel that anything with a white face is somehow all inclusive then we will continue to think that this is just how it is. Some of us out there don’t believe that this is just how it is and will complain and take our dollars elsewhere until the message gets through. You know Christians are pretty much the majority in this country, should they be able to now dictate to everyone else how to live their lives? Or make policy, or dictate education or religion? Of course not, we understand that people should have freedom of choice for things that affect their lives. And we all know that media in any form affects all of our lives and the majority of the time affects how we see one another. If we continue to portray minorities in negative views then we will continue to see minorities in a negative way.

    WHY IN THE HELL DOES IT ALWAYS COME BACK TO ALL BLACK SHOWS FOR YOU!!!! I don’t want all freaking shows to be black. Geez get that through your thick head. I want to have an alternative to what is there. Not a takeover. Blacks are not all about taking over. Is that what frightens you? Are you scared that if you give black people a show they will somehow hijack the whole damn network and make it black? We can include all people from the big community our country is without taking something away from white people. It isn’t always about taking something from white people.

    Do you realize how many projects that are funded by the taxpayer went to white projects? Or do you look at any of that information. See this is the problem, people only see when the “other” is getting something. It was so funny that in an area of Italy where they already had a high crime rate, they got some Asians in the area and then attributed the high crime rate to the Asians. The crime rate never changed only the amount of Asians. The residents were then on the news saying that they hadn’t noticed any crime until they were over run with Asians. So they just didn’t care about the crime until the Asians appeared. This seems to be your mentality with minorities in your area. Get over it. They probably are not out to take over and your white privileged status is probably not at stake.

    And yes, what I am saying applies to each and every minority out there. I would enjoy seeing shows, toys and all other things geared towards everyone. I guess you assumed that I was somehow like you and scared that if they make an Asian toy I would get all upset. Nope I actually welcome that, then I would have even more things to choose from. I would have no problem giving my child a plethora of toys in all different looks and styles. When I was a child my parents bought me a dolls around the world set and I absolutely loved it. I had dolls from everywhere. White dolls, black dolls, Asian dolls, you name it I had a representation of it. There is nothing wrong with that. It lets people know that everyone is important. And to me that is probably the only thing you have said that I actually like. And to think that you said that while trying to be facetious.

    Thanks

  30. The Engineer,

    Great, I love how you put that in your experience. Hey it works out for me too.

    And I did the paper airplane with my older son. He absolutely loved that and origami. He doesn’t do it anymore since he his now into computer games. But I will give that a try with the younger one and see if he also enjoys it.

    Thanks

  31. The Engineer, but you would have to travel back 40-50 years for that paragraph to fit you though wouldn’t you?

    I advise you to visit Africa, stay there for several weeks and see if being surrounded by black faces makes you feel any more at ease, at home or at peace with yourself – it won’t, but it may make you realise that there is more to being part of a community, a people and a nation than the colour of people’s skin. Which is a very shallow definition in anyone’s book.

    I find it staggering that you accuse me of being stuck in a time warp, whilst espousing views akin to those of the white supremacists of that period. You need black role models because we are all so different? What happened to all being pink underneath?

  32. Charlie,

    You are talking about going to a foreign land and that right there puts a person ill at ease. It doesn’t matter your race as you are still a foreigner in a foreign land trying to figure out customs etc. That is not the point. Also, when one talks of community they mean those like themselves in the land they were born. I am sure that if (I am not sure) are born in Europe that you will not find that you are in the same community as white people from Arkansas.

    You continue to talk about us all being different and having different views etc. So why do you think that all is needed are things geared towards white people? If we are all different then yes people need role models, views, just basic representation from people who LOOK like themselves. I don’t care where you live. I could live on Mars with a bunch of martians and would expect to be able to see representation of humans in their media since humans obviously live amongst them.

    So it isn’t a white supremacists view, it is merely the need of ALL humans to be able to identify fully with those supposedly representing you or others. If it isn’t important to have your race as part of that representation then why don’t we just bring in Asians or Indians who will work for a lot less than white Americans and let them be the face for ALL of our television shows? They can be paid some low hourly wage which will give the media industry even more money in their pockets, since to you that is all that matters. What the “majority” are buying into. They don’t because they know that people white people won’t want to see that as it doesn’t represent themselves. You said it yourself even though you continue to try and argue against it, that you won’t watch the black version of king Arthur. And why is that merely because the actors don’t represent you or what you know about those characters.

    And this is my point exactly! Not every person is going to be able to identify with a white character. Just as you don’t with the black Knights of the round table. There is absolutely NO difference between the black characters and the white characters besides race. So it obviously matters to you, me and others. So why the obvious denial and constant arguing? Is being inclusive that difficult?

    Thanks

  33. So what you are saying is that only black people can enjoy black toys but somehow white character toys are enjoyable by ALL.

    OK, we have circled round this several times now, so let’s be clear. Normal, mainstream TV shows are inclusive, despite what you may think they are not all white and many if not most have black, Asian or other minorities characters.

    They are all inclusive. What you are asking for is ALL black programmes, akin to the black tv channels, i.e. no whites, or other ethnic groups whatsoever. Don’t say that whites already have there own shows because they don’t. If blacks can watch tv channels without seeing a white face, why can’t everyone else without seeing a black face? White characters have to be all inclusive, there are more different types of whites in the US than all blacks put together.

    As for the toys, it is not that black toys are exclusive, but why only have black toys, what about Muslims, Hindu’s and every other group that you seem unconcerned with, what do they do, or do black just get their own mainstream toys because they are the largest minority? It’s not about takeover, it about economics, who is going to pay for them. Let’s face it, if there were a market they would exist, they don’t. Racism doesn’t come into making money, money is money. No one would dispute that black kids should have black toys, but what you are asking for is that rather than the specialist toys of other minority groups, you want major retailers to have black lines. Even though these just won’t pay, so who pays?

    Do you mean their culture since the shows are full of white people

    Round and round we go! They aren’t though are they? They are predominately white, as the US is 80% white, it seems like they are all white but that is a reflection of US society as a whole. Don’t you understand that the national networks have to cater for the tastes of the whole nation? Why do shows get cancelled so quickly these days? There are markets for them, but not enough for the advertisers to be kept happy. Do you really think that aiming tv shows at one specific ethnic group is going to improve that any? No, they’d just get cancelled.

    Some of the top shows in America had absolutely NO black characters. Friends, Seinfeld, Frasier and Cheers.

    And what does that tell you? You are living in a majority white nation, ergo TV shows don’t have to keep black people happy to be successful, but sadly the opposite is true. The Fresh Prince of Bel Air had virtually no white characters, other than walking in the background yet was a hit tv show, showing again that there are black tv shows, they can be popular (with white people), and that white people don’t appear to be as bigoted as you are showing yourself out to be. They watched that show despite it having no resemblance with their lives, because it was good. Produced, written, directed and starring talented black people – that is what made it a good tv show.

    A tv show aimed at one group is going to have to be pretty special in order to get the audiences, i.e. white people watching, as that is what counts. White people are the only group that can have tv shows aimed directly at them, because they are the only group that pays. There are and can be good black tv shows, but having black tv shows just to get black faces on tv is not the way to go.

    The Cosby show which chronicles the lives of black people who had absolutely NONE of the problems of black people, none of the life dramas of black people and practically none of the customs or beliefs of black people.

    Then you complain about showing black characters as pimps, prostitutes and drug dealers, make your mind up.

    My problem with King Arthur is that it breeds laziness. Why bother encouraging black actors, black writers, black producers and black directors, why bother trying to get them to create new and interesting content, when we could all just take a short cut and turn white characters black? You wouldn’t therefore have a problem with a tv network reshowing friends, but a black version? Same scripts but all the actors black? You’d be happy with watching a black re-run?

    A reshooting of Casablanca, but again everyone black? You’re really that shallow that it is just black faces that count?

    You know Christians are pretty much the majority in this country, should they be able to now dictate to everyone else how to live their lives?

    But you’ll be celebrating Christmas in eight days like everyone else, watching the Christmas tv programmes, Christmas movies, singing songs and generally accepting all the Christian messages, traditions and so on, without a second thought because it is Christmas? How do you think the non Christians or other religions feel at this time of year? Do you feel that they should put up with it as it is just this time of year and there isn’t many of them or do you feel that you should tone down your celebrations, perhaps show more inclusives, non festive tv programs so they don’t feel excluded?

    Regardless, I hope you have a great Christmas, fantastic time of year, especially for children.

    Blacks are not all about taking over. Is that what frightens you?

    No, but I have seen the ugly side to racism first hand and I know that it doesn’t take much for people to start behaving like animals. Once you start handing things to one group over another, be it tv shows, tv channels or anything else without justification, you start adding fuel to someone’s fire. You feel left out and under represented, once you start being overrepresented then others too will feel disenfranchised and under represented, they’ll feel that their views are being sidelined. You notice the lack of black faces, what do you think the reaction of white people will be, who rather than seeing 1 in 8 black faces start seeing 4/5? With 240 million white people in the US, it isn’t going to take much to start breeding hate. Whatever way you turn it, it will mean less white faces, less white tv shows, justified or not, people will notice and they will react.

    Do you realize how many projects that are funded by the taxpayer went to white projects? Or do you look at any of that information.

    Unless it is more than 80%, I don’t see your point. To be fair, and I really don’t want to get into a debate on this because it is a much wider issue but if you look at how much in taxes are paid by black people, and how much taxes are paid to black people…well… There are reasons for this, granted, but we have a similar situation in the UK. Scotland and Wales are both poorer nations than England, for many reasons. Both get more taxes spent on them than they are capable of raising, yet both complain that the English get the most taxes spent on them, but the English are the majority.

    See this is the problem, people only see when the “other” is getting something.

    Quite right it is a big problem and it is the same the world over, it doesn’t even have to be about race, colour, or religion. Mankind has a habit of grouping themselves together, then enviously regarding other groups.

    This seems to be your mentality with minorities in your area.

    We’ve had an influx of Eastern Europeans in Britain recently, thanks to the EU, mainly Poles. On the news they were interviewing residents in areas where many had settled (mainly ethnic areas) and to a man they repeated the same lines about crime rate going up, jobs, taking over, not feeling safe anymore etc. Ironically, they were all black or Asian and all first generation immigrants. Colour nor even being indigenous are barriers to this kind of xenophobia, but it is a curiously human trait, nothing to do with race.

    I guess you assumed that I was somehow like you and scared that if they make an Asian toy I would get all upset.

    Sure. But how would you react if there were more Asian, Muslim or Jewish toys than black? What of you lived in a Korean area, where the Korean toys sold really well and so were given pride of place, and the black toys were harder to find?

    I wasn’t being facetious, just trying to make a point that if you give to one, you have to give to all, equally but no matter how you arrange it, you are always taking from someone and no matter what, there will always be those claiming they aren’t getting their share.

  34. It doesn’t matter your race as you are still a foreigner in a foreign land trying to figure out customs etc. That is not the point.

    But that is precisely my point. There were black people within our group, they didn’t feel any more at home with the locals than the white people. Skin colour is not some secret club, far more depends on where you were born, how you were brought up and so on. Likewise the locals looked at us all as British, colour never came into it.

    Just as you don’t with the black Knights of the round table.

    Because it is silly, it treats the audience with contempt. I’d feel the same if the story were made into an all women cast or if Guinevere were a man.

    The BBC also did an adaptation of Robin Hood, again modernised. The cast wore leather jackets, combat trousers, had marital arts skills, make-up, and apparently through-out the series there were black people randomly scattered around in the cast, with no explanation. The dialogue was also updated to reflect modern Britain. Needless to say, I didn’t watch it.

    So why the obvious denial and constant arguing? Is being inclusive that difficult?

    Because, as I keep pointing out, Television and everything else are already inclusive, overly at least in Britain and I am pretty sure the same is true in the US. Black people are over represented on television, especially kids TV.

  35. Charlie,

    If that is your point you aren’t making it very well. What does that have to do with people being represented in the media of that country? I never said that skin color was some secret club. You are right it doesn’t matter what your race is you deserve to be represented in the media of the country in which you reside. So I don’t know if you are saying that if you are part of a community that is a majority white you somehow should be able to connect to the white images in the media instead of the community being reflected in the media? Just because I grew up with white people does not mean that somehow I am now able to see myself in a white represented media. That is like saying just because you were the only living male in your family that now you can identify fully with an all woman media. That doesn’t make sense, you would still like to see men represented in the media.

    “Because it is silly, it treats the audience with contempt.” EXACTLY!!! Are you telling me that seeing that story as black is contempt yet forcing blacks to only see whites in the media is not just as contemptuous of the black audience or other minority audiences? I don’t care what excuses you have they all go to my point. You do not like seeing things skewed to a viewpoint that isn’t yours so why should I like it. And I am NOT talking about British television. For one thing I know nothing about British television or media. I know a lot about United States media and television and we have a problem here. Black people are represented, YES, but in only so many ways. I never said that blacks were NOT represented. I said they were OVERREPRESENTED in a negative way, WITHOUT the flip side. When you have Larry the cable guy you also have Gil Grissom from CSI. With black characters they are overrepresented with D.L. Hughley or Martin Lawrence or other idiots. If you don’t have them you have some idiot who is on crack, a thief or a scummy individual. That is not being representative of the black race. The majority of black people are not jigaboo clowns or criminals.

    So please lets keep this in context of what I am talking about which is American media. If the post were meant to encompass other media that would be one thing. But I can’t speak for those other countries media.

    Thanks

  36. … it treats the audience with contempt. I’d feel the same if the story were made into an all women cast or if Guinevere were a man.

    Charlie, what’s the reason for your obsession with race?

    There’s nothing at all natural about suggesting that all parts in plays, movies, and television must be played by actors of the correct race.

    When audiences know exactly what a character is supposed to look like (for famous modern people, for instance), the actor often looks vaguely similar, but isn’t cast to look exactly alike. The producers emphasize good acting over impersonation.

    Even when audiences don’t know precisely what a character is supposed to look like, producers often rarely try to cast actors of exactly the right height, weight, physique … or race.

    You talk about men and women being cast correctly, too, as if they can’t play each other’s parts. Yet, there’s nothing natural about this, either. As I’m sure you’re well aware, in Shakespeare’s time, female parts were routinely played by male actors. For a variety of reasons, this was seen as more appropriate than using female actresses.

    Somehow, Elizabethan audiences had no particular difficulty with men playing female roles, any more than they did envisioning that an actor with an Elizabethan accent was really an ancient Greek or Roman figure. Or, for that matter, that a white British actor was really a black general named Othello. (Yes, casting against race is hardly a modern phenomenon.)

    So why are you so desperate to ensure that all roles, at all times, are played by actors of the “correct” race?

  37. Charlie,

    We have gone round and round and all I am going to say AGAIN is that NO I don’t want all black shows, a few good ones would be nice but not ALL black. And NO television here is NOT all inclusive.

    You can go round and round about the make up of the United States all you like and that doesn’t mean that just because white people are 80% of this country they can be 99% of the media. That doesn’t make sense even for what you are saying.

    Shows that are all white does not show me that I live in a majority white country. It shows me that as long as we have attitudes such as yours where a person believes that “hey this is just the way it is” then that is the way it always will be. Just because they make all white shows does not make it right. There is no reason we can’t have all inclusive shows or at least alternative shows with black or minority characters.

    I don’t celebrate Christmas how about that! I don’t care if Christmas is being celebrated. There are a lot of people in this country who don’t celebrate Christmas or celebrate some alternative. Plus no one actually forces everyone to celebrate Christmas or to buy Christmas cards etc. They have these things called alternatives. You can buy holiday cards, Chaunuka cards or cards for any occasion. We allow people to have alternative then so why not in the media?

    Or because somehow it is going to hurt white people’s feelings to encompass everyone we should just leave things alone. Don’t make them have to open their minds and eyes just let them dwell in their ignorance. Is that really a smart move? Are they going to somehow going to change by being allowed to fester in their stupidity? And right now things ARE being handed to one group over others. For white and screw everyone else. But somehow that shouldn’t be breeding hate? Come on. Are you saying it only breeds hate when it is from white people to everyone else? How sick.

    Why does it always end up with someone getting more with you? If it were done the way I proposed that wouldn’t happen. But even if it did I certainly wouldn’t mind the choices. I don’t mind being able to choose what I want. I don’t have a problem with lots of ethnicity being represented, I have a problem with only ONE being represented. Also, Muslim and Jewish are not races they are religions. I don’t buy religious toys so I wouldn’t need to worry about that anyway.

    If I lived in Korea and they had 15% or more black people living in that country then I would expect to be represented. See it doesn’t matter where I am what matters is that if you have a sizable population of that particular race of people, they should be represented. I don’t just want to buy black toys. I want to have a choice in the toy. If I want something that represents my family then I should have the choice. I shouldn’t be dictated to by one group of people telling me that I only have the choice to choose their likeness for things. I don’t think that would be fair in any context. Now if I was the ONLY black person in a place and I mean there were NO others I would not expect them to go out of their way to make one toy. But there is a large enough population of minorities in this country that they should be represented. And I mean black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American and whatever.

    So stop being so wrapped up in someone getting more than their fair share. It isn’t about taking from one to give to another. Just because they put out a minority truck driver does NOT mean that the white truck driver has to go. It isn’t about subtracting it is about adding. Same thing with television and movies. We can add programs that others are or will be interested in without taking away what others like. Some of the shows that are marketed to blacks can be replaced with better ones. Is that too much to ask?

    Thanks

  38. Shabazz

    charlie…you’re an asshole.
    charlie, like the millions of other whites from lands near and far will never “get it”
    Blacksentinel, you’re beating a dead horse with this clown
    can we move on now?

  39. The Engineer

    “The Engineer, but you would have to travel back 40-50 years for that paragraph to fit you though wouldn’t you?”
    — quotation by Charlie

    Here, in the United States of America, that paragraph applies today as it did 40 to 50 years ago. I was born, raised, and continue to live in the same Caucasian neighborhood. You would like it here, but if you were to engage in the same illegal activity that many Caucasians do engage, then you would dislike me very much. You see, Charlie, it is simply incorrect to assume that “white is always right” and that anything else is always wrong. It is also incorrect to presume that the default choice must always be “white.”

    “I advise you to visit Africa, stay there for several weeks and see if being surrounded by BLACK FACES makes you feel any more at ease, at home or at peace with yourself – IT WON’T, but it may make you realise that there is more to being part of a community, a people and a nation than the colour of people’s skin. Which is a very shallow definition in anyone’s book.”
    — quotation of Charlie

    The capitalized emphasis is mine.

    Charlie, you presume too much, and that above statement of yours (with the capitalized emphasis) really shows your racism.

    From Engineering school to the present day, I have met many Africans, and there has been absolutely no problems. Many of them immediately recognize me to be an Engineer.
    I would love to visit and live in Africa. I am lucky — I do not belong to a group of people who have a long history of going to foreign lands and capturing, torturing, killing, and otherwise doing inhumane things to the indigenous people. Quite the opposite — I would come with the recently formed reputation of people who are building infrastructure, hospitals, and industry — all without strange social-political “strings” attached. You just presume too much, Charlie.

    “I find it staggering that you accuse me of being stuck in a time warp, WHILST ESPOUSING VIEWS AKIN TO THOSE OF THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS OF THAT PERIOD. You need black role models because we are all so different? What happened to all being pink underneath?”
    — quotation of Charlie

    The capitalized emphasis is mine.

    Yes, you do seem to be in a time warp.
    No, I never said the rest — not even close.

    I do not watch television. It has been over a decade since the last time I did watch television. I think television is biased and is more so today. I also believe that television overly promotes consumerism, which is a bad thing. I really do encourage everyone to boycott television.

    I attended an elementary school in which I was the only non-Caucasian student in the whole school until the third or fourth grade. Sometime during the fifth or sixth grade, I played the lead role in Tom Sawyer. I PLAYED THE PART OF TOM SAWYER! It was tough for a 10 or 11 year old to memorize essentially the lines for every character for the entire play, but what is more amazing is that I had to act out the accent and mannerisms of A YOUNG, UNEDUCATED REDNECK! ME! Let me assure you, Charlie, that if you were to see me today, you would faint.

    So, I do not think it is outrageous to have a Black King Lear, a Black James Bond, or even a Black Formula One Racing World Champion 2008 (who won it for Britain).

    http://www.formula1.com/teams_and_drivers/drivers/828/
    (Note: Mr. Hamilton is also the youngest in history to win a Formula One World Championship)

    Thank you for listening.

  40. The Engineer,

    I so agree with you. That is my main grief with television as well. It is way over commercialized and too stereotypical of the roles for white and black. I had to play a part of a Caucasian being a black person in a predominantly white school. And your comment about white isn’t always right and that the default shouldn’t always fall to white. I mentioned this in a previous post and plan to do a post on this very thing do to the comments of Charlie.

    Thanks

  41. Shabazz,

    My family is telling me the same thing and asking why I even bother to continue talking about this with him, since we will never have a meeting of the minds. But, I try to allow people to have their full thoughts portrayed until they really get on my last nerve.

    Thanks

  42. Shabazz said:
    ‘charlie, like the millions of other whites from lands near and far will never “get it”’

    Get it? Only black people suffer racism? What rubbish, you are so caught up in your own self pity you don’t have a clue.

    charlie…you’re an asshole.

    Thank you. I only hope that I can be as courteous to those of a non white persuation when they too are outnumbered and merely trying to make their point. Shabbaz, you are clearly not old enough to realise that one can only really be sure of one’s views and beliefs by discussing them, and better yet being forced to justify them to those of a contrary opinion.

    Without doing so our views become entrenched and worse, meekly followed by the feeble minded with very little justification. I doubt that you’ve ever had any reason to justify your principles or beliefs, you’ve just been given them.

    And it’s flogging a dead horse.

    Engineer said:
    “You would like it here, but if you were to engage in the same illegal activity that many Caucasians do engage.”

    I am not sure what you are implying here, but if it is some remark about white people being involved in crime more than other races, well, that would be racist. I never said white is right, I implied that white is average, because it is.

    Charlie, you presume too much, and that above statement of yours (with the capitalized emphasis) really shows your racism.

    Really? In what way? Because I mentioned Africa? A continent you have less connection to than me, a place you have never been and a place that you would never want to live in, but that still evokes strong feelings in you? Who says that black media doesn’t have an effect?

    I have met many Africans, and there has been absolutely no problems. Many of them immediately recognize me to be an Engineer.

    Again you’ve lost me, I was making the point that race isn’t as important as you may think it is, and less important than where you were born and what nation you are from. In Africa there are not free passes just because you happen to be black, they don’t care, you have nothing in common with them.

    I do not belong to a group of people who have a long history of going to foreign lands and capturing, torturing, killing, and otherwise doing inhumane things to the indigenous people.

    Sorry, I thought you were American? Or is it a case of black first, American, well right down the list? You are American when it suits but not when it comes to carrying the can for past events?

    I do not belong to a group of people who have a long history of going to foreign lands and capturing, torturing, killing, and otherwise doing inhumane things to the indigenous people.

    Sorry, I thought you were black. Clearly you are as ignorant of your ‘black’ heritage and history as you are of your American history.

    Quite the opposite — I would come with the recently formed reputation of people who are building infrastructure, hospitals, and industry — all without strange social-political “strings” attached. You just presume too much, Charlie.

    I don’t presume anything. Africa may hold an almost mystical place in your heart, you may even be naive enough to think of it like some long lost home but one thing that Africa is very short on is repatriated blacks. You may harbour nice fantasies about it, but you’ll never do it. Like many Western blacks who’ve had a excellent education and grown up in a free and fair society you would have so much to offer, yet it is only white people that move back and try to help Africa develop. 

    I am sure that in your fantasies you believe you’d be welcomed as some sort of hero, that there would be an instant brotherhood? As I said earlier, you have nothing in common with African blacks, to them you are white. You are living off the fruits of slavery and colonialism just like white people.

    So, I do not think it is outrageous to have a Black King Lear, a Black James Bond, or even a Black Formula One Racing World Champion 2008 (who won it for Britain).

    Lewis Hamilton won F1 through skill, dedication and an amazing talent. He has been working extremely hard for it since he was eight years old. He wasn’t handed it on a silver platter, like a black Bond would be.

    James said:
    So why are you so desperate to ensure that all roles, at all times, are played by actors of the “correct” race?

    Where precisely would the line be, or wouldn’t there be one? Black Jews in concentration camps in holocaust films? What about films about slavery in the 18th century with white slaves crammed in on slave ships?

    And back to the point, if it is not so much of an issue, why is it such an issue with black toys? Or a lack of black faces? I really don’t understand why you can’t have too many, or any in the wrong place, but you can have a shortage?

    the blacksentinel said:
    You are right it doesn’t matter what your race is you deserve to be represented in the media of the country in which you reside.

    OK, but who decides, is it done by quota or would it be fairer to just have those with talent doing the jobs? Also, it isn’t possible to have everyone represented. I don’t think I have ever seen a woman in a burkha on US television, (and I don’t mean in the background) yet there are over a million of them in the US.

    does not mean that somehow I am now able to see myself in a white represented media.

    Why doesn’t it? But I am meant to see myself in a black media?

    yet forcing blacks to only see whites in the media

    No one is forcing anyone, furthermore there are plenty of blacks in the media. Most of those that own the major media organisations in the US are Jewish, that doesn’t mean that it is only aimed at Jews.

    You do not like seeing things skewed to a viewpoint that isn’t yours so why should I like it.

    That is part of life. I may not like it, but the shows get made and shown anyway. That is what comes with living in a democracy, and it isn’t just about race, you don’t agree with many of the black role models, well that is what happens in a democracy, most black people probably do, otherwise they wouldn’t be on TV. I think what you are having most problems with is that you seem to associate more with white people, yet for some reason you feel angry at this and are blaming white people for it. You said that you grew up in a white neighbourhood, so you probably do have more in common with white people. White people that grow up in poor black areas tend to have more in common with blacks than most whites (music, dress sense, morality), surely this should show you that skin colour is irrelevant, nurture rather than nature.

    Also kids are more interested in whether a toy is fun, rather than the race, pretty much until they are adults. It is adults that start adding racism into the mix.

    That is not being representative of the black race. The majority of black people are not jigaboo clowns or criminals.

    I agree with you there. I was watching some film the other day and one of the characters was a young black man, and as usual he was loud, over the top, brash and talked ‘street’ as soon as he opened his mouth I thought, ‘Oh, not another one.’ Sure Eddie Murphy was good in the 1980s with it, but it quickly became old, and that is all you see in movies today. But who is to blame, white people or black people? Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, Martin Lawrence, Will Smith, Chris Tucker et al, were all famous before making movies, i.e. some one liked them and they way they were and the studios just cashed in. Personally I always preferred Richard Pryor.

    There is no reason we can’t have all inclusive shows or at least alternative shows with black or minority characters.

    There are many inclusive TV shows. Ones that I can name off the top of my head, Dexter (black, hispanic, female and even ginger main characters), CSI, Dancing with the Stars (black Judge), American Idol (black judge), House (Omar Epps), Grey’s Anatomy (Isaiah Washington – James Pickens), CSI Miami (Dr Price), Prison Break (LeChero, C-Note), Without a Trace (Vivian Johnson) – Some of the biggest TV shows on US Television. Apart from Prison Break, I don’t see a problem with any of those role models, admittedly I don’t watch them but black positive faces there.

    As for alternative shows, who would pay for them? Aiming a show at just 38m people, most of whom probably won’t watch it, or associate with it, is likely to be a disaster. Some of the shows I mentioned earlier get 20m viewers, i.e. they make money.

    Are they going to somehow going to change by being allowed to fester in their stupidity?

    But is it stupidity? White people don’t get their perception of black people from the media, they meet them everyday.

    No, I am saying that it only breeds hate going from a majority to a minority, Jews were hated because it was believed they were better off, as were the Tutsis.

    Also, Muslim and Jewish are not races they are religions. I don’t buy religious toys so I wouldn’t need to worry about that anyway.

    No, but they would. I am not just talking about race, you are talking about representing minorities, they are minorities so surely they too should be represented?

    It isn’t about subtracting it is about adding.

    But it is. If Acme toys produced a black character it most likely wouldn’t sell. Sure, some white people may buy a black toy, but most would go for the white one, and it would be hypocritical of you to blame them. What then? Acme toys are a business, they shouldn’t have to lose money to keep minorities happy. They would either have to stop the white line, or the black line. Stopping the black line could be construed as racism, stopping the white line would remove choice for white people, the majority.

    Some of the shows that are marketed to blacks can be replaced with better ones.

    But where are the black people that are meant to be creating them?

  43. Charlie,

    You are wrong! White people DO get their perception of black people from the media. I have had countless white coworkers exclaim that I am not like “other” black people. Or say that you are “a hard worker.” And when pressed on these statements they talk about how “insert television character” behaves or how usually this how black people behave. And if I am the only black person they know very well, then where else did they get their information? And if it wasn’t from the media then it was from friends or family and that is just as bad.

    If I give you no alternative to peanut butter and jelly then you are either being forced to eat peanut butter and jelly or have NOTHING. That is force by giving no other choice. So basically you keep saying that this is how life is. Is that meaning that I and others minorities just simply have to take it because that is how it is? We can’t complain, or force the companies into compliance? Segregation was just how it was at the time as well, do you feel that those people should just accept that as well? What they hell kind of stupidity is that?

    You can talk about how much poor whites have in common with blacks etc. But that doesn’t stop them from being racists. It doesn’t stop them from acting in a manor that is contrary to the well being of blacks and themselves. That doesn’t stop them from siding with the rich white people when things come down to it. So it doesn’t much matter.

    Wow you can name one minority on a few shows, now that is inclusive isn’t it. How many of these minorities you named are the main character of these shows? Not to mention Isiah Washington is no longer on Grey’s Anatomy and hasn’t been for a while. And a show about prison which we all know is majority of black people and they blacks aren’t the main characters, how funny. That is like making a show about a Chinese sweat shop and the main characters are black. That wouldn’t hardly be realistic would it? Anyhow, you have made my point thank you.

    And your ASSumption that if Acme toys made a black toy it wouldn’t sell is preposterous. If this were true then why do they make black baby dolls? Because they don’t sell? And if Honda makes black cars does that mean they have to make less white ones? Of course not, they fit the manufacturing to the need. They understand that people want to have a choice of colors for their cars so they make more than one color. Why is it so different for toy manufacturers? That makes absolutely no sense. Removing toys from white people would be terrible but telling minorities that they don’t get any toys is just par for the course to you. How much white privilege has damaged your brain. White people could NEVER identify with a black toy but you blacks BETTER learn to identify your racial persona from white toys.

    Why don’t you tell me where the black people who should be creating the shows are. If these media conglomerations are all inclusive like you say then they should have black writers, producers, actors and stage crew. But alas we get to the crux of it all. They DON’T have these people. They don’t have black senior management who are making decisions as to if a black oriented show is good. They are white executives who are approving or denying shows. And if they market mainly to white people then when a show about blacks comes out it is also being marketed to white people. The majority of people consuming these shows, music etc. are white people. So is it really a black thing?

    Also, I am aware that Muslims and Jews would want their own toys etc. I don’t have to worry about that since you were asking me if I would be content with them having toys. And yes they can have all the toys they want. But remember Muslims are black, white, Asian and everything in between. So the toy isn’t going to have a Muslim LOOK. As what would that be exactly? What makes one LOOK like a Muslim? Or a Jew for that matter? So if you can think of a way to make toys that encompasses a religion, have at it.

    Thanks

  44. The Engineer

    “…I am not sure what you are implying here, but if it is some remark about white people being involved in crime more than other races, well, that would be racist…”
    — quotation of Charlie

    “…I do not belong to a group of people who have a long history of going to foreign lands and capturing, torturing, killing, and otherwise doing inhumane things to the indigenous people…”
    — quotation of The Engineer

    “Sorry, I thought you were American? Or is it a case of black first, American, well right down the list? You are American when it suits but not when it comes to carrying the can for past events?”
    — quotation of Charlie and first response to the quotation by The Engineer

    “Sorry, I thought you were black. Clearly you are as ignorant of your ‘black’ heritage and history as you are of your American history.”
    — quotation of Charlie and second response to the quotation by The Engineer

    “…As I said earlier, you have nothing in common with African blacks, to them you are white. You are living off the fruits of slavery and colonialism just like white people.”
    — quotation of Charlie

    “…Like many Western blacks who’ve had a excellent education and grown up in a free and fair society you would have so much to offer, yet it is ONLY WHITE PEOPLE that move back and try to help Africa develop.”
    — quotation of Charlie

    The capitalized emphasis is mine.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7086777.stm

    “And it’s flogging a dead horse.”
    — quotation of Charlie

    http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=flogging
    Excerpt: “(beat severely with a whip or rod)”

    http://www.goenglish.com/BeatADeadHorse.asp
    Excerpt:
    “…
    Example: “Dad, are you sure we can’t get a new computer for the upstairs?” Reply: “Son, we talked about this and the decision was ‘no’. You are beating a dead horse.”
    …”

    To The Black Sentinel:

    Charlie continues to put “his foot into his mouth” and just further buries himself. It is so apparent that he is making so many off-handed presumptions — it started out as being funny; now, his racist arrogance and hubris are appalling. I think it is very amusing that he makes a fundamental presumption as to who I am, and he is so wrong. He is completely oblivious to his inherent racism (the worst kind of racist), or, to give him the benefit of the doubt, he is a very coarse individual — clearly uneducated and a low class commoner.

    Ms Shabazz said it best:
    “charlie…you’re an asshole.
    charlie, like the millions of other whites from lands near and far will never “get it”
    Blacksentinel, you’re beating a dead horse with this clown
    can we move on now?”

    Thank you for listening.

  45. My family always accuses me of beating a dead horse. I just can’t help myself. I think I have a high tolerance for pain. Or I am a glutton for punishment. I am getting a bit tired though and my kids will tell you that this is the worst time to continue saying stupid things. Although he is giving me so much material for future posts it isn’t funny. Hopefully he has gotten tired as well.

    Thanks

  46. theblacksentinel:

    You know, I was actually going to start this reply by stating that I may have been wrong and that I cannot compare your experiences with my own as I have heard that the US is one of the most racist nations in the Western World, and not really comparable to British blacks; but re-reading the replies to my comments made me hesitate. I don’t really know enough about the US to comment but my experience here has certainly taught me a lot.

    If I give you no alternative to peanut butter and jelly then you are either being forced to eat peanut butter and jelly or have NOTHING

    No. That isn’t right, a better analogy would be be that you’d have to go to another store, possibly a specialist store down some back street but there would be alternatives. You’d just have to work harder to find it as you are asking for something outside of the norm.

    You can talk about how much poor whites have in common with blacks etc. But that doesn’t stop them from being racists. But that doesn’t stop them from being racists.

    What a horrible thing to say. All white people are not racist, why do you always assume that white people are racist? You said yourself that you live in a white area, are all your neighbours racist? Black people can be racist too, or don’t you realise that? Don’t you realise that assuming white people are all racist is just as bad as assuming all black people are criminals?

    I think you find that money creates a far bigger divide than race. I have far more in common with my black neighbour than the man who lives in the multi-million pound mansion a few miles away, even though the latter is white.

    That doesn’t stop them from siding with the rich white people when things come down to it

    Could you give me an example?

    Wow you can name one minority on a few shows, now that is inclusive isn’t it.

    Well that’s the word I’d use. Besides I named two or three in a cast of about ten on several occasions. Isaiah Washington was fired for being homophobic, ironic that a minority actor was fired for criticising another minority.

    As for Prison Break, one of the main characters was black. I am sure that if the majority had been black, this would have been in your negative role model pile.

    And if Honda makes black cars does that mean they have to make less white ones?

    It’s not the same and you know it. It would be like Honda making cars with no pedals for amputees, sure some people would find them great, but most people probably wouldn’t buy them, meaning the cost of making them would out weight the profits.

    White people could NEVER identify with a black toy but you blacks BETTER learn to identify your racial persona from white toys.

    Then why do black dolls sell? Some white people are perfectly happy with black toys, but not enough to make it worthwhile. There has to be a majority for it to be mainstream, otherwise you’d have to look into specialist suppliers.

    They DON’T have these people.

    There are plenty of black people in the media industry and in upper management, it may not be 12% but they are there.

    As for the toys, there are plenty around, as I said though, minorities probably have to work harder to find them, just like the tall person and trousers that fit.

    Muslim toys – http://mshoppe.co.uk/main/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=282

    Black Toys – http://www.positive-identity.com/

    Both were quite literally a Google Search with I’m feeling lucky.

  47. Engineer:

    Interesting way of rebutting my points, repeat back to me what I said, then claim that I am a racist! Naturally I am to you, I am white.

    He is completely oblivious to his inherent racism (the worst kind of racist)

    What are you talking about? Sorry, I am white therefore I am racist? Virtually everything that you’ve said is racist, blacks don’t have a monopoly on racism. All this from someone who doesn’t own a TV for fear of seeing a white face and being consumed by white propaganda! Forget flogging a dead horse, you should look up irony and hypocrisy! You don’t create harmony and understanding by trying to hate others more than they hate you!

    clearly uneducated and a low class commoner.

    And you have the gall to label me coarse and arrogant! Someone who uses Engineer as a moniker! As for uneducated, I wasn’t the one making sweeping generalisations about white people and making such arrogant statements as:

    …I do not belong to a group of people who have a long history of going to foreign lands and capturing, torturing, killing, and otherwise doing inhumane things to the indigenous people…

    If you’d studied African history you’d know that your statement is complete nonsense. Not to mention the fact that you’re standing in a land whose indigenous people were killed, tortured and treated in the most inhumane manner. Presumably not your fault as it happened before you got there? But then you blame white people for things that happened before they were born.

    As for flogging a dead horse, if you read the actual description on the link you gave:

    “beating with a whip or strap or rope as a form of punishment”

    Beating with a whip, strap or rope. i.e. not just plain beating. Anyway as I said the actual phrase, at least according to the Oxford English Dictionary is flogging a dead horse.

    I am not sure what you were getting at with the BBC link, please remember that I am an uneducated commoner, you may have to spell it out to me.

  48. As I said, I don’t think I know enough about the US and the life that blacks lead there, reading these comments has given me an inkling though, I have also dug up some disturbing facts. Reading these comments it is clear that most black people (at least here) believe that white people are a bunch of racists just waiting for a chance to discriminate against blacks.

    Yet according to the statistics that I found, of all the interracial violent crimes between blacks and whites in the US each year, 15 percent are perpetrated by white people, 85 per cent by blacks. With violent criminals, 3 per cent of the victims of white violent criminals are black, whereas 45 per cent of the victims of black violent offenders are white! Clearly white racists are not the issue in the US. Sure there may be some racists and there is the KKK but those statistics are just shocking. There is clearly a perception amongst US blacks that white people have it in for them.

    Which probably explains why every time a black person is the victim of something in the US, the usual suspects of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are wheeled out, proclaiming how racist white America is! Yes even across the pond I have heard of those two, who do their best to re-enforce the black negative perception of white people.

    You’d think after 200 years black people in the US would have moved on, but no, right beneath the surface this hate, and that is precisely what it is, is bubbling away nicely beneath the surface, just waiting for an excuse to spill out. I have seen what this kind of ingrained hatred does when it bubbles over, and it makes the LA riots look like a teddy bears picnic.

    I don’t think that I have posted a single comment that hasn’t had someone respond with ‘racist’, even though far worse stereotypes have been aimed at me, imperialist, colonial, murdering arrogant white person, to paraphrase most of the responses. A seemingly typical knee jerk reaction to any criticism of the so called black community, or any inference that the problems within may be reinforced by negative attitudes of black people themselves.

    I really don’t understand it, but now I can say I have experienced it first hand. As I said I have spent time in Africa, and most of my life in predominately non white areas of Britain, and I have to say that it seems to be a peculiarly American thing.

    Twice now I have been told that I am uneducated – talk about prejudice and snobbery. What would my education have to do with me being right or wrong precisely? An inability to properly formulate my argument does not mean that I am wrong, or that my opinion doesn’t count. Never mind the fact that I am probably better educated than both of you! Fortunately I haven’t taken your comments to heart, but such snobbery to people who are trying to share their opinion, especially those with contrary opinions to your own, is only going to re-enforce any prejudices that they may already have formed.

    You certainly have with me and needless to say I won’t be back.

  49. Charlie,

    Here is the problem with your analogy, THERE IS NO OTHER STORE IN WHICH TO GO TO! It isn’t as if I can just go to toy store B and find what I need. It isn’t like I can just turn the television channels and finally find what I am looking for. So now what?

    I didn’t say that ALL whites were racist. But that is what all people say that somehow money creates a bigger divide than race. Your example is the majority of KKK or skinhead members are poor. So do they have more in common with poor blacks or rich whites? According to them it is rich white people based on the fact that they all have white skin that makes them more alike. So, I am sorry but I can’t agree with money over race. Everything I see tells me that it isn’t so.

    But guess what Charlie, they do make special cars for differently able. Isn’t that great that they actually have a choice? So how different is it really? I mean you want to claim that just because a minority group would like something that somehow it shouldn’t be done unless the majority want it as well. That is not how life works in the majority of situations. But with race it is the standard mode of operation.

    You are taking my comment out of context. I was just repeating what you had previously said. Remember we were going around and around? I am stating that to say that if blacks are expected to be happy with white toys then the opposite should be true as well. But you stated that black toys would not be wanted by the majority who just so happen to be white.

    Show me your proof of all these blacks that are in upper management. And while you are at it show me the data where you got your statistics for hate crimes or interracial crimes being perpetrated by 85% black people. And it is great that you find an online toy store for minorities. Isn’t it great how white people can get exactly what they need the same day by just driving to any store? I guess being inconvenienced is OK as long as you are a minority. Because convenience and assortment are for the majority.

    Thanks.

  50. It was rude of me not to include links and references, I apologise.

    The information came from the publication – Race, Crime, and Justice in America Second, Expanded Edition, 2005, The Color of Crime: Race, Crime, and Justice in America.

    A link to a copy can be found here, but it is all over the internet.

    I guess being inconvenienced is OK as long as you are a minority.

    I am afraid so, remember the adage ‘You can’t please all of the people all of the time…?’

    The majority always get the best of it, you assume that this is a white thing but it isn’t, it is a majority thing. You should try buying sausages in a Muslim area.

    Incidentally, people like the KKK do hate white people too. Sure they vent most of their anger at blacks, but they also the rich white elite, they are just harder to get at. They also aim their ire at Roman Catholics and oddly, labour unions.

    Anyway, Merry Christmas.

  51. What this guys problem is, is that number 1 he’s a foreigner with no understanding of the black experience in America. 2 he’s not black. You know it always just kills me when people say cuz they always say it… blah blah blah it’s been 200 years one would think that black people would GET OVER IT. Funny they don’t say this to the Israelites… who are special cuz the bible tells me so. They say get over it but this group of people have been GIVEN land, money (still get it from the US Government), protection, weapons (nuclear)… But no one ever says they should get over it. Yet, I’d say that given all these things would be a little incentive to get over it. But what does our so-called Black Community get? What have we gotten? What history book records that? Or do we have to go to that special book store that Charlie has no interest in going to to learn about these things? What about the decades after slavery when we were being killed by the KKK who were wearing police uniforms by day and burning our homes and our BUSINESSES, that our people worked hard for with no reparation i mean compensation, by night. I don’t think anyones people would be happy with these conditions… Once again I’ll say this wasn’t that long ago!!!! 40 – 50 years ago. We’re just now being able to have success on a normal level it’s just gonna take time. Although our condition hasn’t been fully address or reconciled so we’re still a sick community in need of some healing.Sometimes I think we’re too far gone or should I say extremely traumatized as a people to go back. Where is our monument for all the slaves that died. We just now got an apology.
    A caring soul on the outside looking in would think this is pathetic how people dismiss the so-called Black community and our issues. truly hurts me.
    So what are our choices?
    Most of us just want to live and raise our children in a safe environment like everyone else. Some of us fight causes. Some of us Blog. Some of us don’t even care about our race and do what we have to do to live and get what we want despite what others think (this includes going to school and getting a degree and being successful in a chosen field to selling drug and eventually murdering someone). In short we’re no different from anyone else given the same conditions.
    One doesn’t have to have a degree or a schools education to know what the hell is going on around you.

    Love.

  52. I followed the link and read the opening page of the publication and found that the article was put together by the New Century Foundation. I looked up the New Century Foundation and found an entry in Wikipedia that said that this group publishes the American Renaissance, a monthly white nationalist magazine describing itself as America’s premiere publication of racial realist thought. The Color of Crime makes various claims about the relationship between crime and race with the conclusion that black people are more dangerous than white people and it is logical to take precautions around black people.

    Jared Taylor is the editor of American Renaissance and the president of the New Century Foundation. Mr. Taylor has questioned the capacity of blacks to live successfully in a civilized society. David Duke, the infamous former grand wizard of the klan, has described Mr. Taylor as a man of immense ability and with the courage necessary for telling the truths of race. Surely this cannot be an impartial source for information on race relations. It appears that you and Mr. Duke have some things in common.

    Peace

  53. BrotherP,

    Isn’t that how it always seems to work? That a person comes here spouting bogus stats and a ton of racist rhetoric etc. and they just so happen to get all of their information from some of the most biased racists around. The New Century Foundation or the American Renaissance which have spawned tons of idiots on my blog regurgitating so much of their racist venom.

    Thanks for the pertinent and very insightful comment.

  54. I apologise, I should have researched the source a little better but I assumed that they were some kind of racial equality commission, tasked with carrying out research into such matters. I searched and searched for information on what we term here ‘racially motivated incidents’ and that publication came up time and time again.

    If there are any official publications relating to this subject they are well hidden. I was looking for something along the lines of the Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System that we have in Britain. It is quite surprising that the US Government, or someone else doesn’t publish official documentation, the absence of such statistics are only going to encourage others to create their own.

    That aside, I am quite tired of being called a racist, over and over again. You criticise a far right organisation for racist propaganda then spout your own blinkered view; I criticise and I am not black ergo – I must be racist and anything I said will be disregarded.

    Some simple facts though, blacks account for 12% of the US population but almost 50% of the prison population, you don’t have to be a racist to see that something is wrong there.

    Damien, I may be a foreigner, and white but we have black people here too. They account for 2% of the UK population, but about 25% of the prison population. It isn’t as simple as racism.

    In the 1960s and 70s, when the black immigrants arrived they had one of the lowest crime rates amongst any ethnic group, including whites. Now they have by far the highest. Whether it is racist or not, the question has to be asked, why?

    Personally I lay a fair amount of the blame at your door. The US black vitriol has found a home within the disaffected youths of Britain, who for some bizarre reason seem to associate black history and culture, with the US, presumably to do with the media.

    As I alluded to earlier, the black community there is anything but a decent role model, especially when it harbours so much hate and ill feeling toward white people.

  55. Charlie,

    I don’t recall seeing anyone calling you a racist. There is a difference between being told that you are spouting racist rhetoric and being called a racist. I definitely believe that you are spouting the racist rhetoric which you have gotten from the Renaissance site. You can easily find the correct information from the Department of Justice.

    As far as black people being 12% of the population and 50% of the prison population, has it ever occurred to you that systematic racism is what caused this disparity? If the majority of crimes being committed (according to the DOJ) and yet the majority of black people are in prison by overwhelmingly disproportionate numbers. How about the fact that the judicial system is run by white people using a system of disparity that has been in place from the beginning? While you are out getting your new statistics from the Department of Justice (DOJ) why don’t you also look at the study they did finding that racism plays a large part of the disparity in the system.

    Now you also want to lay the blame for the disparity of Britain on the blacks in America. Why don’t you and others stop looking at the symptoms and then trying to find blame everywhere else instead of looking for a scapegoat? Why are the black youth in Britain disaffected? Is it because black people in America are having problems? Of course not! That is like saying that the black people in America are having their problems due to the problems of blacks in Africa. Your whole assumption is a joke!

    We blacks in America are hardly role models for blacks in every country of the world. Are our white people’s racism and stupidity somehow because of the poor role model set by you and other white people in Europe? See the stupidity in those statements? I really can’t believe that you have the audacity to print this crap. You really need to think further and deeper than you do. Black people don’t harbor so much hate for white people. White people are not the victims here so maybe you might start thinking about the things that white people do that might cause minorities to be angry.

    Give me a freaking break.

  56. The Engineer

    To The Black Sentinel:

    Yes, you do deserve a break.

    After Damien’s and brotherpeacemaker’s excellent commentary and research, I believed that the whole matter would be over — an open and shut case.

    Now, he is backpedaling (after being caught) and yet continues to resume his diatribe with worse vitriol (e.g. “Personally I lay a fair amount of the blame at your door…”).

    Thank you for listening.

  57. The Engineer

    I believe Charlie is suffering from many of the same psychological problems that tormented Winston Churchill.

    It would not surprise me that Charlie is a drinker too.

    Thank you for listening.

  58. The Engineer,

    I totally agree. Backpedaling seems to be the mode for people who spend too much time researching on racist sites and none reading and learning about the subject matter they wish to discuss. Things would be much better in life if we could all just take a small amount of time to learn just a little bit. Knowledge is a terrible thing not to have.

    Thanks as always.

  59. Engineer said:
    Now, he is backpedaling (after being caught) and yet continues to resume his diatribe with worse vitriol

    Naturally, I am not just a man with an opinion, I am white, therefore I must have an agenda, an ulterior motive and I must be racist. What precisely was I caught at?

    The information may or may not have been wrong, it may have been presented in a bias manner, but the facts are clear. Black on white homicides are on the increase, whilst white on black homicides are on the decline. This ingrained hate is clearly having an effect with black on white murders increasing more than 25% in 30 years. (Department of Justice).

    I believe Charlie is suffering from many of the same psychological problems that tormented Winston Churchill.

    It would not surprise me that Charlie is a drinker too.

    More generalisations and stereotyping?

    theblacksentinel said:
    Knowledge is a terrible thing not to have.

    I couldn’t agree more.

    You can easily find the correct information from the Department of Justice.

    I did thank you, I have to say it didn’t exactly paint a different picture.

    has it ever occurred to you that systematic racism is what caused this disparity?

    Yes, and then I realised how absurd that notion was. If people in the US were really that racist the only people with jobs would be white people. The only people with businesses would be white and so on. I am not disputing that racism may be endemic within the US justice system, but to account for 50%? Come on, you are just taking the easy answer.

    If racism were the sole reason, (and by this I presume that you are insinuating that most of those in prison are innocent?), why aren’t other races affected? Chinese, South East Asian, Hispanics, Arabs (you’ll have to forgive me, I have no idea of what the correct terms are in the US)? Why do these races have a lower criminal percentage rate than they should, yet only blacks have substantially higher?

    Why is it the same story in France, Britain, and most other Western nations regarding the black community? Are they all racist too? What’s next, poverty? Again this isn’t the answer, there are just as many poor whites and other minority groups and in Britain at least the poorest group are Pakistani Muslims, who have a far lower offending rate than they should.

    What about Jamaica? A black nation, with a black Justice system, police force and 99% black population. Yet Jamaica has a murder rate of 500 per million, ten times that of the USA and 20 times that of Britain. It isn’t about racism, or poverty, it is culture and a negative attitude.

    Why are the black youth in Britain disaffected?

    I didn’t say black youth, I said ‘disaffected youth’. Walk onto any housing estate in Britain or Western Europe and you’ll see everyone dresses the same, acts the same and listens to the same sort of music, regardless of colour. It is all based around US black culture, gang culture.

    We blacks in America are hardly role models for blacks in every country of the world.

    But you are, at least in the Western World. Certainly during my time in Africa I began to see it having an impact there too in the music and the way people dressed, but nothing like elsewhere.

    The TV programme that I mentioned before where the black boy picked the blonde blue eyed boy as the person that he most wanted to be friends with, well in one episode his parents took him to New York and they were stood on Martin Luther King Street and his mother pointed it out to him and exclaimed ‘There is our culture, there is our heritage!’

    Despite the fact that both parents, and the boy, were British born second generation immigrants of West African descent, and had about as much of a connection to King, as I do to Lincoln. There was no civil rights movement in Britain and black people had been voting since the 18th century. I have to admit that the British education system is to blame in part, but a large part is the US black culture. You may not see it, you may not want it to be the case, but the West is saturated with US black culture, and sadly a large part of that is the negative attitude that comes from US blacks that they must all stick together against the white man.

    White people are not the victims here

    And there we have the crux of it, the victim mentality. Countless times I have seen interviews with young gang members and they spout the same rubbish, ‘the only way I was ever gonna get anything was to take it…..’

    The irony of your statement is probably lost on you, but in Britain, invariably white people are the victims. 70% of those killed in racist murders in Britain in the last three years, were white. There has only been one black person killed in a racist murder in the last three years in Britain. There are twice as many racist attacks on white people each year than on all the other minorities put together, just take a look at the link I gave you earlier. This is Britain of course but I am sure it is a similar story in the US.

    If you keep perpetuating this myth that white people are all racist, and that black people are always going to be discriminated against, well this trend will continue. After all, why bother if you are only going to be a permanent victim?

    You mentioned positive black role models and black toys, but what is the point if the kids are only going to be dragged back down with racist attitudes towards whites, and surrounded by negativity at home? Incidentally, the mother in that programme stated her main concerns were that her son should learn about race and racism, as she believed that black boys find it harder in life and she didn’t want him to fall into the stereotype! Talk about irony!

    There was even talk recently in Britain of segregating black boys, something that has never happened in Britain before. Not by whites, but by the Racial Equality Commission Head, Trevor Philips (black), as black boys were faring so poorly in schools, far worse than even a generation ago, and again largely due to the victim mentality perpetuated in US black culture.

    I leave you with Sir Winston Churchill, the greatest ever Briton:

    “Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.”

  60. Charlie,

    Please! “Yes, and then I realised how absurd that notion was. If people in the US were really that racist the only people with jobs would be white people.” Like I said knowledge is a terrible thing NOT to have. If you are going to continue to try and corroborate your idiotic assertions you really need to get the information. Blacks are unemployed at twice the rate of white people. So yes white people do have an over majority of the jobs.

    Also, I didn’t write the documentation on the DOJ having a problem with racism, THE DOJ WROTE THAT! So if they feel that the United States Justice system has a problem with racism then how can YOU try and refute it? And for a person who has NO idea where to find legitimate information about American crime you do have some nerve trying to tell me what is and isn’t absurd concerning our justice system.

    You claim that the DOJ numbers still look just as bad. I believe that you originally went to find information about interracial crime. And I know that you are not trying to say that the numbers at the DOJ show black on white crime. That is just a bunch of bullhockey. And in case you didn’t notice I don’t give a damn about France or Britain. As I know the race problem is bad in those places as well. But since I don’t follow their issues it is insane for me to try and talk with you about it. We are talking about blacks in AMERICA!

    So if you want to continue to say that blacks in America are role models for others, is it also your assertion that European whites are the role models for all other whites in the world? And if so, is it you and other white people’s fault that we are dealing with such racist white people here in America. Is it your bad role modeling that caused slavery, Jim Crow and all the systemic racism that you claim doesn’t exist as if you were living it.

    You claim that blacks are a role model for blacks around the world. You then say that the disaffected youth in Britain NOT black youth. Why don’t you get your statements together. Are you saying that black people in America are role models for ALL races of youth everywhere, only in Britain, or just where you think?

    I guess you feel that rape victims have a victim mentality? Oh boo hoo. The problem is that when someone or group of people are continuously victimizing you then you ARE A VICTIM. Yet, that doesn’t matter, you are laying all the blame on black Americans for all the disaffected youth behaviors, all other black people around the worlds behavior. What kind of nonsense is this?

    I will just leave it at this because you have royally gotten on my nerves going around and around. Acting as if you know better about racism in America than the people in America and better yet the people who are subjected to that racism.

    Thanks

  61. TheDude

    You want the freedom to choose “black” products? Then get off your duff and create them. If there is a demand for a product and you fill the demand then you are likely to make $$$ and make a lot of blacks very happy (assuming your product does what the “black” public wants). Its a pretty simple concept.

    I grow oh so weary of hearing people gripe and complain about the disparity in crime statistics. Let’s see…a city with a large “black” community is probably going to have more “black” crime than a city with a small “black” community. A city with a large “white” community is likely to have the same (or at least comparable numbers). Show me some actual jury statistics regarding racial content of the jury and then we can talk about any sentencing disparity. Even if there is only one black person on a jury, the verdict still must be unanimous doesn’t it? So, either the one black juror is convinced the suspect is guilty or perhaps they are so “intimidated” by those evil whites/browns/smurfs on the jury?

  62. The Dude,

    So, what you are saying is that you yourself went out and manufactured all of the goods that you needed? Oh, of course not. So why then when I want equal representation I am told that I need to go and manufacture my own things? Is that a touch of racism? I am not sure but if you and the white race don’t have to manufacture their goods then I am pretty sure I shouldn’t have to either. That is called equality, but I guess that just isn’t for me and other blacks, right.

    And I grow weary of people with your idiotic thought pattern. Let’s see take your dumb ass down to the Department of Justice website and read their statistics and the nice little data they put together showing that the system is rife with racism yet they don’t have the answer to fix it. Gee, I guess I am not the one who you need to talk with about it.

    And if you are dumb enough to think that there is NO racism in the criminal justice system then can I interest you in a beautiful bridge that you and your family can use exclusively. It is magical, takes you anywhere you want to go. And for you it’s on sale this week for only fifty billion dollars. And if you think that whites/browns/smurfs are evil maybe that is your problem. You should really seek help.

    Damn, I am tired of this nonsensical idiotic rambling from people who probably live in the same room they were born in. I think I am having a bad day. No get the hell off my blog and leave me alone jackass.

  63. So, what you are saying is that you yourself went out and manufactured all of the goods that you needed?

    theblacksentinel you are missing the gentleman’s point; some white person already went out and manufactured all of the goods that we need. That isn’t racism, just plain facts.

    If there is something else that I need, then I can be reasonably sure some other white guy will invent something to fill that need. I know that there are black owned companies that create black only toys, the question is why aren’t they exploiting this gap in the market? Is it because the ‘gap’ does not exist?

    Tell me more about this bridge…

  64. I think people are missing theblacksentinel’s point. If a white person decides that their goods and services are only for white people, we would call that racial discrimination. That is a fact. If the white person at the toy story wants to make only white dolls and sell them to white and black people, black people should be able to say where are the black dolls that are more representative of us without white people getting offended. It is as if we don’t have the right to ask for representation. White people say go make your own dolls and the other items black people like to see as if this alone cures the problem of black people constantly and consistently being ignored. Black people want jobs? Go start your own company. Black people want an education? Go start your own school. The market for black toys, employment, and education doesn’t exist, at least not without a court order.

    Peace

  65. Charlie,

    Why don’t you tell me the names of all these black companies who you know are creating all these black only toys? And you made my point exactly! If YOU a white man needs something there will be a white guy to fill the need. Now if it is obvious to the business sector that blacks have been continuously overlooked when it comes to money for businesses.

    Not to mention how is some small black company supposed to overtake all the large marketing toy companies? Is there a secret that is unknown that you are privy to that none of us know? I doubt it! It is just another attempt at you talking out of your ass yet again. If there is NO gap then why don’t you point all the minorities in the right direction for toys and other goods that represents them? Why? Because you know damn well there IS a gap and you know damn well there is NO one who can compete with these companies who have rested on the fact that minorities will adapt their sorry ass products to their needs. While the white population doesn’t have to. Now that is some racist crap for you.

    Now go back to where ever you were and don’t chime in again, thank you!

  66. Half black / Half white Girl

    Both races are equally racist. Though throught-out the years I’ve seen the Bla network, Black magazine, white people being the ‘idiots or rude’ people on shows that are about black families. Such as Tyler Perry’s movies only have black actors as the main characters and the white people are usually mean, stupid, or disgusting. Same goes for a lot of other shows.
    And white does have it’s equal share. A lot of toys do focus on white action figures and dolls. I have a hard time believing that ‘car’ toys are racist. Sure a lot of them have blue eyes, but to me it sounds like you think eye colors are going to become racist. Blue eyes vs Green eyes. Hazel vs Black eyes..ect. Its not a big deal, eyes are only eyes. I’ve seen white & black people with green eyes.
    My friends are all different races, white, black, asian, mexican, mixed, ect. My best friend is black, yet she’s obbsessed with blue eyes. My other friend is white and her eyes are a very dark brown. So eyes have nothing to do with toys or people being racist.
    I’m only saying what I think, but the fact is both races can be mean when it comes to being racist.
    ~Coming from a half black/half white person with a god damn normal mind

  67. Half black/half white girl,

    Give me a break! Are you telling me that there are an equal amount of television shows or whatever? I think not. And sure every race of people has racists. No one said anything to the contrary. And YES, I do believe that it is racist to only have cars or any other toy to have blue eyes. There are people out there with other colors of eyes. Even though this isn’t the point. Next time try reading the entire post before wasting my time.

    I don’t give a good shit who or what race your friends are as it doesn’t make a difference to me. My friends are of all races too, does that help you in some way, of course NOT. So why? The point of the post was that people feel that it is just fine to NOT be able as a black mother to find toys, books and other things that are race appropriate for my child. Why in the world should I or MY CHILD have to settle with toys geared towards white people?

    Are white people being forced to have ONLY black toys to choose from? And if not then explain why this is fair that I or any race other than white has too? And don’t give ME that bullshit about how it doesn’t matter. It may not matter to you or your rainbow coalition of friends but guess what? Some of us would like to have toys our children can look at and see themselves or family in. Some of us would like to HAVE A CHOICE!

    Now if you are done riding your broke down soap box, go tell someone else about some stupid ass Tyler Perry movie, because I would have no idea what is in those idiotic portrayals of stereotypes.

    And this is coming from a BLACK woman who just happens to have a father who is part white, Native American and African. Who DOES have a grandfather with blue eyes, a grandmother with green eyes. And still I want to have toys that portray what I and my family identify ourselves as.

  68. narner

    Just one question. When you were looking for the ride on toy were there more white people in the store or more black people? I understand your feelings but If the store you were in has more white customers than black it would make sense. I am a designer and if I designed a toy I would put it in front of a focus group of kids and watch how they respond to it. I would do what I can to get a diverse group of kids. I have done this before. One thing I can tell you is little kids (toddlers) don’t care about another kids color or their own. Marketers however should aware of the demographics of their target market. Most of the time they are. At the same time decisions are often made on a cost basis. It possible that the ride on car manufacturer was not thinking about race at all ( not thinking about race is the opposite of racism) He was however thinking this that this model of car with these colors and these stickers got a better response in the market tests do lets sell this one. He is probably also thinking that he establishes those cartoon characters as part of the brand identity of the toy he can save money on ink by only printing out the same characters.

    I would bet anything that the decision to to design and sell that ride on tow with those white kids on it has nothing to do with racism in the part of the toy company that produced it. Their job is to make a toy that is safe, fun, and will sell.

    Now if you live in southern California where white people are now a minority I think it would be really dumb to put white cartoon characters on the toy. IF you live in Minnesota it would not matter because most (not all ) white people could care less what color the cartoon characters are on a plastic toy they will probably be throwing away with in a year or two.

    Though I am sympathetic to your issue. I suggest you look into ride on wooden toy. Maybe a bit more expensive but will retain it’s value if you take care of it and can be passed on to another child or grand child. Also a wooden toy made by some grandpa down the street or even by you won’t have any stupid decals that will peel off after a day in the sun. Well that is what I do for my kids any way,

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