Lazy Affirmative Action Boogeyman

After reading some of the comments to a post done a while back by Brotherpeacemaker titled “An argument against affirmative action”. I have just become totally fed up with the idiotic comments. Not only are the stories they tell completely and absolutely fake but they are just plain stupid. It seems each white person that comes there somehow always knows of at least one person who was either passed over as the best candidate, lost their job to an unqualified black or knows a lazy shiftless black who used affirmative action to get the job.

This is just more white racism and privilege that these people somehow believe that no matter the facts to the contrary blacks can never be the more qualified than a white person. In fact a black person doesn’t even seem to be qualified or fit for employment at all to these people. Somehow these people always seem to know the black persons credentials. And how they know this is anybodies guess. Because we all know that in order to say that the person who got the job over you was less qualified you need to somehow have access to their resume. And we know this is pretty much impossible.

Not to mention how do these people even know who ALL the people going out for the same job are? I mean how many interviews have you had that you actually were in the presence of all the other candidates? I know that I have not had very many except when I was getting a job for the city and one for the state. They did bring all the candidates in to test at the same time. But neither I nor they knew the scores of any of the other candidates. So when I eventually beat all those losers out for those jobs I know that none of them can say that I was less qualified. Plus they had no idea who the final candidates were anyway. After they narrowed it down, the interviews became one on one and each candidate was done at different times or days.

“Well my husband works as an electrician. All the men go out and do their job, BUT the black man you can not get to do anything. You can’t even find him. He will usually just go around town in his truck and visit friends or sleep in his truck on the side of the road. His Boss can not rid himself of this man even though he’s tried. The man yells “Afirmation Action” and is unqualifed and lazy to top it off. He’s even threaten law suits if anyone has him fired. He was hired to fill a slout in the company by ‘Affirmative Action” for a minority black person. He lied on his resume, and no other black applicants were qualified either My husband has talked to a lot of companies around and found out this is happening all over the place. The non-working man has yet to be qualified as an electrician but is suppose to be working on it, but he won’t study or work. The hard working other employee has to take up the slack. There are plant employees at a plant nearby saying that they have the same problems. I think it’s “High time” that people are judged on whether they can do a job instead of the color of their skin. Yes, there are a lot of people that take jobs they can’t do and know just use the system. Even if they get in trouble for doing things they shouldn’t do….these actions are dismissed. When will it end?
Lynnae”

There are other comments that are just as silly as this one. But this lady to me takes the cake. The story told by Lynnae here is so non-credible that I think the story is fit for a fairy tale instead of trying to be passed off as factual happening. These stories to me are nothing more than the urban legend which has served to push the end affirmative action movement further along. These so called real instances of how affirmative action hurt someone never seems to be rooted anywhere in reality. Where are the stories of how affirmative action helps someone? Do these people know any blacks who have been passed over for a job by an unqualified white person? In fact a survey of businesses said that they would hire a white man who did not have a high school diploma and had just gotten out of prison on a felony conviction before they would hire a black man with a four year college degree and no criminal history. What is this saying about the state of this country and whether or not affirmative action is necessary?

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39 Comments

Filed under African American, Black community, Black Culture, Black People, Minorities, Racism, Social Issues

39 responses to “Lazy Affirmative Action Boogeyman

  1. Libertarian1

    There is a very simple solution to the problem you describe. Just eliminate every possible selection for ‘affirmative action”. If everyone knew it not to exist there could never be any comments about the unqualified getting positions because they wouldn’t.

    Never again would you hear Clarence Thomas is unqualified but he would be recognized as the brilliant man he is.

  2. Libertarian1,

    There is only one problem with you very simple solution. Unqualified white people get jobs over others as well. Just like I posted that CNN will be airing July 23rd. Companies in the US stated that they would hire a white man with NO high school education and a felony over a black man with a 4 year college degree and NO criminal history.

    How do we stop that? How do we implement your simple plan to stop white affirmative action? Also, if Clarence Thomas is or isn’t a brilliant man is extremely subjective.

    Thanks for the reply.

  3. The problem with eliminating every possible selection for affirmative action is that we will return to a system where racial minorities would be overlooked from the job market. The reason affirmative action programs were even necessary was the practice of white people not to hire black people. But that’s okay with most white folks because they know they won’t be impacted. When black people don’t get jobs and there is absolutely nothing to even suggest that there is anything wrong, people from the racially generic dominant culture that is predominantly white will simply say black people need to lift themselves up by their boot straps. No white person would ever go back to the practice of not hiring black people. And if you believe that, you probably believe in the Easter Bunny and the lazy affirmative action boogeyman.

    Peace

  4. BrotherP,

    You are absolutely right. The dominant community will indeed go right back to the status quo. I mean we have laws against discrimination yet it doesn’t seem to stop it. So should we believe that ending any selection will ensure blacks and other minorities get a fair shake when they can’t get one now.

    You constantly hear people saying that blacks shouldn’t expect the handout of a job. But then turn around and say blacks need to get jobs. Just full of hypocritical bull crap now aren’t they.

    Thanks for the comment.

  5. Pingback: Pages tagged "affirmative"

  6. So let me get this straight. It is impossible for there to be even one black man out there taking advantage of the system. Wow. That is incredible. There are tons of white people taking advantage, and not even one black.

  7. Jay,

    No one ever said that NOT ONE BLACK MAN has ever used the system. The thing I was speaking to was a lady who said ALL BLACK PEOPLE were using affirmative action to be lazy etc.

    So lets not read things into a post that were never there nor never stated. So if you have anything else that might be constructive let ‘er rip. Otherwise, I’ll thank you to not put words in my mouth.

    Thanks for the reply.

  8. Sentinel,

    My point is that rather than say all anicdotes of white people getting passed over are and I quote, “non-credible”, “fairytales”, “urban legends”, “idiotic comments”, and so forth, you could at least admit that it could happen on occassion. Simply put you accept that as an acceptable cost of moving towards equality. Some people don’t.

  9. Jay,

    My point is that I didn’t say ALL anecdotes etc. were non-credible. I said that the ones that came to a specific blog were NOT credible. And just to be clear most of them are probably non credible.

    How on earth are these people going to know that the person they got passed over for was less qualified? How did or do they get a hold of these peoples personnel files or resumes? So yes to me until they can explain HOW they are finding out the person is less qualified the accounts are NOT credible.

    What I am saying is that the stories that were being told on this one post were so ridiculous to be believable. This lady not only tells the tale of a black guy at her husbands job who is lazy and unqualified but she said that every black person in her husbands field in that town were as well. She said that they had contact with ALL other companies and they said the same thing. Really? That sounds ridiculous to me and that is my opinion.

    Also, I CAN NOT accept that until someone can credible explain to me how they know all the specifics about these so called unqualified people getting these jobs over qualified white people. There is NO way at least legally that you would be privy to that information. That is what makes it incredible. Not to mention, I have NEVER met nor seen the personal information of a person white or black that received a job that I went out for. And why would I automatically believe that the job should have been mine or that the person “just had to be” less qualified than myself?

    These are the things that you or these totally un-credible people need to be answering before I will accept these crazy stories off the cuff.

    Thanks.

  10. The Engineer

    “To be, or not to be, that is the question:
    Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
    Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
    And by opposing end them…”
    — William Shakespeare’s Hamlet

    Affirmative Action, or no Affirmative Action, that is the question.

    There are many fronts in the War of Affirmative Action. I see the workplace and college education as the two main war fronts that concern Caucasian Americans the most.

    In the workplace, it is clear that Affirmative Action must continue in order to address past and current infringements of all minorities. Here is a good article entitled, “Affirmative Action: Who benefits?”
    http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/affirmaction.html
    An excerpt:


    Finally, although affirmative action policies appear to target women and people outside a majority group as ‘beneficiaries,’ majority group members benefit as much as minority groups, if not more, from such policies. Although opinion polls reveal that many Whites believe they are unfairly discriminated against by affirmative action policies, it is Whites who benefit most. This is because of their larger numbers in most sectors covered by affirmative action interventions. For example, when white women, along with people of color, benefit directly from affirmative action in the schoolhouse and workplace, all citizens benefit by being part of a well-trained, competitive U.S. workforce capable of participating effectively in the global world market and of supporting an aging population. Further, when white women are as well educated and well employed as white men, then white men, women, and children also benefit, for in virtually every woman’s life there is someone with whom she shares resources.

    In college education, Caucasian Americans have made some progress in eliminating Affirmative Action in college admissions in some states. Their main motivation is to have fewer Minorities in school so that more Caucasians can be in school. Did it work?
    The following weblink sheds a very embarrassing result:
    “Wednesday, January 30, 2008
    Bans on Affirmative Action Help Asian Americans, Not Whites, Report Says
    By PETER SCHMIDT”
    http://groups.google.com/group/bnyee/msg/e6d0e9d79f210d6f
    An excerpt:


    The report predicts that white people might begin actively opposing race-neutral admissions policies if Asian Americans continue to make gains. “Whites are still too influential in politics and in the private sector to sit quietly while this trend continues,” it says.

    And some more embarrassment:
    “Admissions and Public Higher Education in California, Texas, and Florida: The Post-Affirmative Action Era” by David R. Colburn, Charles E. Young, and Victor M. Yellen
    http://repositories.cdlib.org/gseis/interactions/vol4/iss1/art2/
    In the above abstract, The Black Sentinel readers can download the freely available PDF file which is the 25 page report. An excerpt:


    Following the elimination of affirmative action at these five universities, white enrollment, as a percent of the student body, also began to decline and has continued to do so since then (see Graph 12 and Graph 13 below). While the percent of whites as a proportion of the population had been declining in all three states, thus lending justification for the decline in the number of white students, it is an important trend worth noting. FOR THOSE WHO CAMPAIGNED FOR THE ELIMINATION OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IN THE BELIEF THAT IT WOULD ADVANTAGE THE ADMISSION OF WHITE STUDENTS, THE TREND OVER THE PAST EIGHT YEARS CAN HARDLY BE SATISFYING.


    Capitalized emphasis is mine.

    The Caucasian American removal of Affirmative Action from college BACKFIRED on them. On a pure merit system, THEIR NUMBERS REMAINED THE SAME OR ACTUALLY WENT DOWN! In other words, Affirmative Action was found to have HELPED and not hindered Caucasian Americans.

    It is a fallacy for Caucasian Americans to claim superiority through merit. Note to The Black Sentinel: if you come across someone to claim otherwise, please refer such person to the above weblinks. That should mute them forever.

    Shall Caucasian Americans be consistent, or shall the Caucasian Americans be hypocritical? That is the question.

    If Caucasian Americans are consistent, then they have two choices:
    1. Affirmative Action in workplace and school.
    2. no Affirmative Action in either workplace or school.

    Choice 1 means they must just tolerate whatever their grievances may be in the workplace in order to have more admissions into college.

    Choice 2 means they may like their biased workplace, but they will see their children wiped out in college, and those who will graduate from college will become the new bosses. (I can just see it now: their learning to bow to their new bosses.)

    If Caucasian Americans are hypocritical (most likely scenario), then there are two combinations:

    Combo A: Affirmative Action in the workplace and no Affirmative Action in college admissions.
    Caucasian Americans will NEVER choose this combination because it will lead to their being wiped out double fast.

    Combo B: No Affirmative Action in the workplace and Affirmative Action in college admissions. This one is tricky. Yes, they will enjoy their biased workplace. Yes, they will see their numbers go up in college, but college will be a more integrated environment. When the new graduates arrive to the workplace, the new graduates will not tolerate a biased environment. Demonstrations will begin on college campuses across our country. The Affirmative Action environment of college will eventually spill over to the workplace, and Caucasian Americans will be back to facing Choice 1.

    Choice 1 appears to be the best. Many (most, all?) Caucasian Americans will claim that they will bear the brunt of the expense of paying for Affirmative Action through lost wages — that is simply not true. They will be more than compensated through higher enrollment in college. The true losers will be Asians.

    However, the Asian loss is a matter of perspective. They are the smallest demographic in the United States of America. There are many universities in all 50 United States of America. It is a simple matter of choosing a university that is less popular. A more likely outcome is that the Asian American community will start forming its own universities. Imagine that!

    Affirmative Action is important for righting past wrongs and important for a future egalitarian society.

    Thank you for listening.

  11. The Engineer,

    Thanks for the links and the reply. I am hoping that a lot of these ignorant people read this reply and go to the links. As they ONLY believe somehow that blacks are the only beneficiaries and thus are supposedly unqualified and milking the system.

    I never hear the story from some white person claiming that a white women who indeed benefits from affirmative action took their job and she was unqualified to boot. No that scenario never pops up. Just the lazy black guy or terrible working black lady. They are the only ones stealing jobs and not working.

    Thanks again for the informative reply.

  12. thordaddy

    The flaw of AA is its fundamental premise that the African- American ancestors of African slaves are suffering like their descendants and therefore we who have not created any injustice must accede to this false notion of equal suffering. Only after this false and corrupt notion is thrown in the trash can African-American even begin to try and assert the morality of AA which is blatant racial and sexist discrimination by any other name.

  13. Thordaddy,

    The problem with your assertion is that there are injustices that HAVE been caused by those here NOW. Unless you believe that black people earning 78% of what their white counterparts make is somehow not an injustice. Or the fact that preferences for white applicants exist and have existed since the first white people set foot on this land is not injustice.

    Also, I think you are overestimating AA for black people. The people who benefit most from AA are white women. So how then is it blatant racism and sexual discrimination?

    What I see is that people want to focus on AA as if it is somehow giving preferential treatment all the while ignoring the preferential treatment which white people are giving one another in the workplace. All things being equal the workplace should mimic the racial makeup of this country. But we all know that corporate America is disproportionately over represented by white people.

    This did not happen by accident. It happened as a result of preferential treatment. The same so called preferential treatment that you claim blacks get from AA. Which we both know is false. If a company sets aside 100 out of 1000 jobs for AA you and other will complain. But what about the 900 jobs that went to white people? What about the fact that 80 out of the 100 jobs for AA went to white women?

    Why is this OK? Why is preferential treatment as long as it is being given to white people fair and not corrupt? See you need to take a step back and look at the system outside of AA. You can not sit and tell me that the playing field is equal and that white owned and operated companies are just filling up with minorities. A study was just conducted here in America and businesses said that they would hire a white man with no high school education and a felony conviction before they would hire a black man with a 4 year college degree and no criminal record.

    And that isn’t corrupt and immoral to you?

    Thanks for the reply.

  14. Thordaddy…you may want to switch the words “ancestors” and “descendants”….it would at least add a little more sense to what your response.

    As for me, I would say my outlook on AA is rather mixed. I know of no personal cases where it may have been good or bad. Of course, in my job, we’ll hire anyone with a drivers license and no felonies…we always need help (could be because the pay is horrible, but I’m the idiot who signed myself onto the job)

  15. Mike,

    I hear you. I feel that AA isn’t perfect either and there is a lot to be desired. But constantly I read comments that complain about everyone black is somehow cheating using AA. This seems ridiculous to me. Not everyone black is even using AA to get their jobs. These people who are commenting obviously do not realize that not every black person who has a job is a product of AA.

    But most annoying is that they ALL seem to have a horror story of a person who somehow has access to these fictional AA lawyers and any time they are to be fired they just yell AA and threaten to sue. I would just once like to know where this works and how stupid the people are who actually are allowing the behavior. AA is NOT a law so you can’t sue on grounds of AA.

    Sorry, I just had to vent a bit more on the subject. But thanks a bunch for your reply.

  16. thordaddy

    Mike,

    You’re right, but no one can mistake the point to which theblacksentinel did not respond.

    His retort that AA doesn’t really help African-American descendants of African slaves, but rather, helps white women is just an additional rationale for abolitioning AA. It’s sexism by any other name.

    But the main point is that the fundamental premise upon which AA stands is the idea that the African-American descendants of African slaves have suffered equally (and continue to suffer equally) to their ancestors. This is a false notion that nevertheless must be perpetuated in order for the advantages of AA to perpetuate.

    It is when one counters this false notion that an end game to this blatant racial and sexist discrimination must be entertained and this is not in the interest of those like theblacksentinel.

  17. Thordaddy,

    That is where you read too much into a statement instead of READING the statement. I said that white women benefit MOST from AA. I did NOT say that white women ONLY benefit. There is a BIG difference. Also, it would be HER retort. Thank you.

    NO, in fact AA stands on a premise that ALL minorities, women, Hispanics, blacks, Asians and any other minority that you can think of are unfairly underrepresented in the workforce due to preferential treatment received by white people from white people who are the dominant culture in America.

    And what is a false notion is that ALL people of color or women receive their jobs due to AA. If in fact ALL people of color and women have to receive their jobs through AA then AA is obviously sorely needed. Since if this is the only way minorities can be hired then it shows that our employment system has a BIG problem and blows a hole in your theories.

    Are you representing yourself as a person who believes that white people are receiving NO preferential treatment in the workforce? If so then you really need to do a little more research and less pontificating on things you obvious don’t have much knowledge on.

    It is obvious that you don’t have much experience with AA so your statements are blatantly simple at best. You claim that AA stands on the idea that African American descendants of slaves have suffered equally to their ancestors. NO, the reason for AA is like I will say again due to the unfair bias that is received as a result of white affirmative action. Meaning white people are given preference in employment and thus the playing field must be made equal.

    Slavery has NOTHING to do with AA. And if it did why would it cover Hispanics, Asians and white women? They were never slaves nor the descendants of slaves as you claim is the reason for AA. You are really stretching and showing you lack of knowledge on the subject. But thanks for the attempt.

  18. The Engineer

    Oh, Mr. ThorDaddy.

    Did you not read my contribution to the discussion?

    Do you really want an end to Affirmative Action? An action that benefits you as well as others, especially in college admissions.

    “It is when one counters this false notion that an end game to this blatant racial and sexist discrimination must be entertained…”
    — quotation of Mr. ThorDaddy

    Perhaps, Mr. ThorDaddy, you will consider a discussion of White Privilege?

    Here is a weblink to an extremely brave Caucasian man, Prof. Jensen, who has decided to broach the subject of White Privilege:
    “White man speaks on White Privilege”
    http://www.anairhoads.org/publishednews/jensen.shtml
    Here are some excerpts:


    I am sitting in my University of Texas office, talking to a very bright and very conservative white student about affirmative action in college admissions, which he opposes and I support.

    The student says he wants a level playing field with no unearned advantages for anyone. I ask him whether he thinks that in the United States being white has advantages. Have either of us, I ask, ever benefited from being white in a world run mostly by white people? Yes, he concedes, there is something real and tangible we could call white privilege.

    So, if we live in a world of white privilege–unearned white privilege–how does that affect your notion of a level playing field? I ask.

    He paused for a moment and said, “THAT REALLY DOESN’T MATTER.”

    That statement, I suggested to him, reveals the ultimate white privilege: THE PRIVILEGE TO ACKNOWLEDGE YOU HAVE UNEARNED PRIVILEGE BUT IGNORE WHAT IT MEANS.

    Frankly, I don’t think I will live to see that day; I am realistic about the scope of the task. However, I continue to have hope, to believe in the creative power of human beings to engage the world honestly and act morally. A first step for white people, I think, is to not be afraid to admit that we have benefited from white privilege. It doesn’t mean we are frauds who have no claim to our success. It means we face a choice about what we do with our success.

    The capitalized emphasis is mine.

    I really hope you can find some balance and peace, Mr. ThorDaddy.

    Thank you for listening.

  19. The Engineer,

    I love that essay. It was an honest look at what he as a white man has noticed about white privilege. I think that it is great that this white man “even” acknowledges seeing the privilege he is given. As most white people (thordaddy) will never admit nor acknowledge that white privilege even exists let alone that they are benefiting from it.

    Unfortunately I think that you are wasting a lot of typing if you are trying have this fellow see anything from his own skewed point of view. Although he is very interesting in his blindness.

    Thanks for the comment.

  20. thordaddy

    theblacksentinel and engineer,

    First, I will apologize to theblacksentinel for mistaking you for a male. But, I was under the impression that “progressives” didn’t think such things mattered?

    But more importantly, neither one of you has rebutted my original statement which was the known fact that AA is premised on the notion that blacks of today suffer equally to their black ancestors of the slave era. THIS IS A FALSE NOTION.

    tbs tried to mask this premise with a contemporary justification that posited as its effect the elevation of white women.

    The engineer tried to mask this premise with the notion of “white privilege” and the bewildering discovery that whites could not see their whiteness as being a substantial advantage in an ALL WHITE SOCIETY.

    Will either one of you refute the fundamental premise of AA and how it then allows you to argue for its perpetual existence?

    As of now, both have made substantial arguments for the abolishment of AA as it hasn’t done what it claimed it could do while also being an explicitly anti-white male program of discrimination. Whether it effects me personally is irrelevant (it doesn’t as it doesn’t for most whites), but the fact remains that it betrays the fundamental principles of progressivism. On that point alone it is worthy of dismissal.

  21. Thordaddy,

    I didn’t know that I was a progressive. But it does have a certain ring to it. So whatever.

    And I believe that I DID answer you about your false notion that AA somehow is under the assumption that blacks suffered as much as slaves. The problem with that is AA in NO WAY is tied to slavery that is stupid. AA is tied to unfair hiring practices of white America.

    Here is a quote from a narrative on what AA is and how it was enacted. “When one thinks of Equal Opportunity and Affirmation Action, common misconceptions are that these laws only protect African Americans, however many other Americans benefit and are protected by these laws (NOW, 1995-2003). For example, the Age Discrimation in Employment Act of 1967, forbade employers from discriminating against persons age 40 and over, and from employers retaliating against these older workers if they file a complaint (EEOLAW.com). Another important Act that protected Americans was the Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990, Titles I and V; which protects Americans with physical and mental disabilities, and ensures that they receive reasonable accommodations to assist with their disabilities (Legal Information Institute, LII). Disabled or not, male or female, all workers are covered for equal salary protection with the passing of the Equal Pay Act of 1963. This act guarantees all workers the same wages, regardless of gender, for doing the same job, in the same conditions (LII). Disabled persons are encouraged to be recruited, hired, and trained for Federal positions be the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (EEOLAW.com). ”

    You can find the information here – http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/78416/equal_employment_opportunities_a_look.html
    So I hope that this will be the last time you claim that you were not answered on your misunderstanding of AA.

    I did not mask anything I stated what is said on the AA website which speaks to all things associated with AA. So I guess they are the ones who are confused not you right?

    Are you actually claiming that white privilege is a “premise” and not a reality? Or are you claiming that every white person knows that they have privilege so it is not important that a white person acknowledging the privilege? Because the way you word your reply is as if you and every other white person knows they have privilege and so what. Which is the reason why it is a problem.

    You claim that it is somehow white male discriminatory. Is white hiring affirmative action which goes FOR white men which gives them a blatant unfair advantage in the hiring and promotion practices somehow NOT discriminatory? And if it IS discriminatory how do YOU plan to fix that? Or should minorities just wait and let it go away by itself which it has failed to do since this country was founded.

    You have failed to show HOW AA is connected to slavery in any way, shape or form. Why don’t you throw out a few facts to prove your point? Or are you going to come right back as usual with more rhetoric and not one shred of anything credible to back it up?

  22. thordaddy

    theblacksentinel,

    To say AA is in “NO WAY” connected to slavery is either intellectual dishonesty or complete naivete. I don’t know enough about you to make that determination.

    But I understand the absolute requirement in taking your line of thought because such a thought process ALLOWS the perpetuation of AA forever to YOUR advantage. Some of us understand that a fundamentally corrupt program, (anti-white male discrimination based on a false premise of equal suffering) that also has the notoriety of not accomplishing what it set out to accomplish, should be jettisoned.

    And lastly, if a white person lives in a predominantly white society then how does he discern substantiative “privilege” in such society? Isn’t the “privilege” extended too thin to notice it or for it to have any effect?

    Your conclusive proof is unequal representation in the workforce? This is evidence of nothing in and of itself and yet you treat it as self-evident proof of racism and sexism.

  23. Thordaddy,

    Are you saying there is NO unequal representation in the workforce? If you are you are in denial and a completely lying fraud. As black workers only earn 78% of what their white counterparts make. Is this also false? Or does it matter? Also, if a white person lived in an ALL white society they would notice NO privilege. But when a white person lives in a predominantly white, meaning there is a large enough amount of minorities around, of course he will see the privilege. That is almost a no brainer. Think about it, how can white people give each other privileges they don’t extend to minorities who are all around them NOT be noticeable? If white privilege was like ice cream and whites are giving ice cream to other whites but not minorities, how could white people NOT notice that all the minorities are walking around with NO ice cream? Are they that thick headed in your view?

    If there is NO unequal representation in the workforce then how come the workforce does not mimic the racial makeup of the society in which that particular workforce is around. Meaning why do companies in predominantly minority areas still have predominantly majority white workers and more yet upper management?

    Your assertion of AA being connected with the suffering of slaves to the suffering of blacks is conclusive from what proof? I have proof that the workforce was and is unequal. It is called the national census and the EEOC both of whom keep track of workforce statistics. I dare you to show me any PROOF such as statistics that show the workforce is indeed equal. And that there is NO white male domination of upper management in most if not ALL companies.

    I KNOW FOR A FACT that you will do no such thing. In fact you haven’t shown one iota of proof or even one other credible source who is even remotely spouting the tripe about slavery suffering and blacks suffering now being a premise for AA. Please show me the information that backs your statements. Show me anything that backs up any of your claims.

    Also, if AA is SO MUCH IN OUR ADVANTAGE why are the numbers still so against blacks in the workforce? Why are we still earning less, getting less jobs, unemployed more than white people? If AA is working so well and giving blacks the advantage then why are they not the majority of people in the workforce? Come on you have got to be joking with this, right? It is just too funny.

    Please stop your propaganda and rhetoric and bring some links, studies, essays, memos or any type of proof that shows that you know what you are talking about. You spouting these assertions don’t prove a thing. And I am giving you links to read and websites to look at from CREDIBLE sources who are from the government who have done research and KNOW what they are talking about and you still say that I have no proof.

    Maybe you should READ some of the things before you continue to spew falsehoods. It doesn’t take much to follow the links and read it and weep. SO PLEASE REFRAIN FROM COMING HERE WITHOUT PROOF, SOME SORT OF LINKS, ESSAYS, GOVERNMENT SURVEYS, GOVERNMENT STUDIES WHICH PROVES YOUR POINTS. As my patience with you is wearing quite thin.

    thanks for the reply.

  24. thordaddy,

    More than 40 years after job discrimination was outlawed in the U.S., the wage gap between white men and just about everyone else persists. The one exception is Asian-American men, whose median wages were just 1% less than those of white men who worked full-time, year round, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics survey in 2005, the latest year for which this data are available.

    Specifically, Black men, by contrast, earned 74% of the wages of white males; Hispanic men earned 58%. And with gender, Women, overall, are substantially lagging behind men in pay. Fulltime female employees earned 77% of all men’s median wages. Breaking it down in terms of race, Asian-American women earned 78% of the median annual pay of white men; white women earned 73%; black women, 63%; and Hispanic women, 52%.

    But I guess you will poo poo the Bureau of labor posted statistics also as not being proof enough for you. Because I suppose you somehow have better information than anything that the United states bureau of labor could possibly compile.

    You would do well to get your facts together before just talking off the cuff about how there is NO privilege, how white men are being discriminated against and how blacks have some sort of advantage with AA over everyone else.

    These FACTS that are free from the federal government show us that blacks are NOT getting over with AA. And white men DO in fact have an invisible privilege in somehow earning more and getting hired more.

  25. Thordaddy,

    You cry that AA is “(anti-white male discrimination based on a false premise of equal suffering)” Then turn around and ask, in an unposted reply, “Why is unequal representation in the workforce in need of the kind of equality that requires government force? What will it accomplish and how does that translate into a good for society?”

    If this is how you feel then who cares about the unequal, unfair AA? Why cry about it if you believe that inequality doesn’t matter? Your arguments make absolutely NO sense. And unfortunately, NOT one more of your comments will make it onto my blog unless you provide proof to your assertions.

    In order to continue your propaganda laden hypocrisy you will need to explain with proof from some government source how inequality is good or even fine for our society. Using government sources prove your claims that somehow blacks are benefiting MOST from AA. Using government sources prove your claims that white men are being discriminated against and are losing out in the workforce and college.

    And until you answer those with actual SOURCES FROM THE GOVERNMENT you will NOT get a reply onto this blog. As the unqualified banter is getting tiring.

    Thanks.

  26. Hey Sentinel,

    I’m dying to know what you thought of the CNN “special”. You don’t have to post this. I just want to know you and BrotherP’s reactions on this. I don’t know if you’re into blog requests but I am officially making one.

    I Love You Guys!!
    Keep up the good work!! You are an inspiration and I am constantly impressed by your knowledge and heart.

    Thanks,

  27. The Engineer

    “A little learning is a dangerous thing;
    drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    and drinking largely sobers us again.”
    — quotation of Alexander Pope, An essay on Criticism English poet & satirist (1688 – 1744)

    Mr. ThorDaddy:

    It is obvious that you have had very little education, and a little learning is a dangerous thing.

    “… the known fact that AA is premised on the notion that blacks of today suffer equally to their black ancestors of the slave era. THIS IS A FALSE NOTION.”
    — quotation of Mr. ThorDaddy

    Sir, you have provided no known facts. You are simply exercising your White Privilege of providing no facts.

    “The engineer tried to mask this premise with the notion of “white privilege” and the bewildering discovery that whites could not see their whiteness as being a substantial advantage in an ALL WHITE SOCIETY.

    And lastly, if a white person lives in a predominantly white society then how does he discern substantiative “privilege” in such society? Isn’t the “privilege” extended too thin to notice it or for it to have any effect?”
    — quotations of Mr. ThorDaddy.

    No, Mr. ThorDaddy; it is you who has not seen his “whiteness” as being a substantial advantage. “Thinness” is not the issue; your refusal to acknowledge your privilege — your own cognitive dissonance — is the ultimate form of White Privilege; you are no different than that college student depicted in Mr. Jensen’s essay.

    You appear to be rather opinionated:
    http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com/2008/05/really-really.html?showComment=1210737240000
    http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com/2008/06/country-i-love.html?showComment=1214129280000
    http://inverted-world.com/index.php/articles/articles/the_reality_of_racial_differences/

    “And since I don’t believe that man (wouldn’t that be black man?) was descended from ape,..”
    — quotation of ThorDaddy

    What, exactly, do you mean by that statement?

    Mr. ThorDaddy,

    You are fundamentally a racist and a fraud.

    Thank you for listening.

  28. The Engineer,

    You always come through for me with these idiotic folks. You seem to find the plethora of crazy statements that they are making all over the net.

    I thank you as I have told this guy as you might have seen that he is NOT going to get one more rant on here without some sort of proof to back up his tripe. I have had just about enough.

    I am a pretty tolerant person and will post some of the most racist and idiotic replies (just see my Resident Evil 5 post) but I can only go so far with someone trying to make facts out of thin air.

    thanks for the reply.

  29. Thordaddy,

    What in the hell are you ranting about. I never had ONE statement about any such ape, monkey or evolution. Not to mention you have NO ideas what any of my “beliefs” are.

    This is just another reason why your ass is terminated. You read the previous post. Don’t come a knockin’ unless you have some documentations to back your sorry ass claims. I really am tired of you. I know your kind and read your replies on other posts.

    You are the same there as here. You NEVER show one shred of proof but then call for “empirical proof” constantly. Then when presented with that proof continue on as if you have the site of Stevie Wonder. You either need to bring it (the documentation) or get the hell on.

    Thanks

  30. WHOOOO! Someone has pissed off the Black Sentinel! You know, one of the things I learned when I was growing up is”don’t piss off a black woman”. Although another thing I have developed in my thinking is when the black woman gets pissed off, you always pray its someone else that did it, and that you can watch! Because ultimately, regardless of the target, there is an education about to be brought, along with the entertainment. I thank God I am not the target on this one!

  31. Thordaddy,

    You really knocked that one out of the park. You showed me Monster.com wooo! I am scared of you. But I did get some good information there. I found out the blacks have a “better” chance of getting a job with the government than in the private sector. And then still not be able to advance. Wow, this showed AA was connected to slavery how? Or is it supposed to show me that blacks have more jobs than whites?

    Neither of which it does. But here is a small block that was interesting. “African Americans make up 17.4 percent of the federal workforce, as compared to 10.1 percent of the civilian labor force. But the percentage of African Americans drops dramatically with each rise in job grade. They hold 27.6 percent of the lowest positions (GS 1-4), 25.8 percent of GS 5-8, 15.7 percent of GS 9-12, 10.9 percent of GS 13-15 and just 6.9 percent of Senior Pay levels.”

    According to Monster they agree with me when I keep saying that white people are overrepresented in senior management. Or can you explain why blacks somehow just can’t keep climbing the office ladder? I think not. And if this link is any indication you are grasping at straws or you would have something with some substance.

    Thanks, I think.

  32. Also, who needs to be afraid of a “dishonest” black woman. No one. Especially NOT a dishonest white man with no credibility. You have no proof and you still bring nothing but junk. Get real.

    Don’t worry your replies will show up just not on THIS post. Also, I loved the way you made black bold, it gives it a nice kick. Thanks

  33. The Engineer

    You are very welcome.

    I am also sorry for your suffering by listening to that fundamental racist.

    Have you noticed that they always use the same strategy? They make a statement as if it was some kind of revelation directly from God, and as Minorities, we are left to defend ourselves. We can present all kinds of facts, figures, graphs, etc, to the contrary, and Caucasians reserve the privilege of ignoring all of it. They simply repeat their statements over and over again and then expect you to understand: “What? You do not believe the word from God?”

    More or less, most, if not all, Caucasians display this quality, and I believe they do not consciously realize it.

    How did I cross reference Mr. ThorDaddy on the Internet?

    First, one builds a listing of White Supremacist type websites by entering on Google the following search string:

    related:www.amren.com

    You will get list of about three pages.

    Second, one builds a more complex search string with the person’s identifier and a key name from the list. With that complex search string, one can consult Google again. For example, I used “thordaddy amren” in Google to find the links listed in my previous commentary.

    These people leave fertilizer all over the Internet, and I would imagine that they do not realize that their own sloppy habits can be embarrassing.

    I am glad to be of service.

    Thank you for listening.

  34. I wished it was just a matter of recognizing the fact that white people are prone to distribute their racist fundamentalist crap. Unfortunately so many brothers and sisters are trying to prove their worth to the establishment by showing how well they can adopt the social poison of black subjugation and white domination by showing, demonstrating, and manifesting their willingness to support the status quo.

    Your experience with thordaddy reminds me of my experience with the conservative black blogger
    constructive feedback. More like destructive feedback. No matter what argument I would use against him he held on to his beliefs. It took a while, but I realized I wasn’t dealing with a rational individual but someone with so much hate for himself that it made him so crazy and the only way he can keep his sanity is by trolling the net and giving black bloggers, politicians, anyone who showed genuine concern for the black community or defended the black community in any way shape or form was the problem.

    It got so bad I decided that the only way to deal with this pest was to put his comments in a single post where he was free to spew his hate for himself and people could listen to him if they wanted. I guess he became bored and decided to stay away after that. No one made comments to his comments and so he went elsewhere.

    As long as you allow this guy free reign he will clog your blog with all kinds of nonsense. Do yourself a favor and either contain him or just delete his comments as they come in.

    Peace

  35. BrotherP,

    I must admit that I got this idea of putting him in his own blog from you. Thanks! He is a time burglar and I don’t have the time for him to steal.

    He needs to get his own blog if he has such a great need to spew his stupidity. When in actuality I think he has a need to actually be seen. I am pretty sure him having his own blog he would still be unheard. So he has to go around to people’s blogs who “have” readers and try to get heard that way.

    I read the destructive oops I mean constructive feedback and he was just as idiotic as this fellow. I guess idiocy knows no race, creed or religion.

    Thanks for the reply.

  36. Okay, so I have to get the comedic section out of the way. While caucasian, my expectations of personal beliefs and my righteousness rarely worry about color lines so much as I just like to be right, even when I know I’m wrong. Ask my wife, its a case of my ego being to large, and that I can be an overbearing (insert your own word here), just because I can.

    Okay, now serious. If you take blog requests, I have a question. Frederick Douglass was a heavy influence on both Booker T Washington (who also was almost an idolic figurehead to Marcus Garvey), as well as W.E.B. DuBois. Washington and DuBois seemed to see the same end, but through very different means. I would be interested to hear the takes on these important figureheads from yourself, as well as Brother P, and The Engineer.
    Consider it a white guy asking for an education.

  37. Thanks Mike,

    As I have been doing a little bit of sparring about Douglas recently and your request just might be, for me at least, something that gets done. I need to give a little more of my thoughts on him since I seem to see him differently than a few of my white counterparts.

    Thanks for the reply.

  38. It always amazes me when White ppl latch on to AA and make it a race-based system when it is a system designed to grant opportunities to those who are victims of non-disabled, non-veteran White Christian Male Heterosexism. The greatest benefactors of AA (and White supremecy, the Suffrage Movement, the Civil Rights Movement, and the Feminist Movement) were White women. That’s right. White women rode the hell out of that gravy train.

    And you have to be qualified in order to be an AA candidate. I’m sick of underqualified, undeserving White ppl complaining about some Black person’s so-called lack of qualifications. Take the L and keep it moving.

    Also, AA benefitted middle class Blacks who were educated in the same schools with Whites but were still getting shafted. So even when Blacks are just as educated and credentialled as their White counterparts, the playing field is still unlevelled. Some Whites make it seem as though some Black person with an associate’s will be selected over a White person with a Master’s. Absolute foolishness.

    When the likes of Dubya get by on legacy and nepotism, not a peep is heard though.

  39. Anonymiss,

    You are so right. All you ever hear is that some unqualified black will get a job over a qualified white person. I still wish one person would tell me why they believe the black is always the unqualified person.

    Why doesn’t one of them tell me what should be done when an unqualified white person gets the job over qualified blacks AND whites. Now what? You never hear anyone complain when an unqualified white person gets the job instead of some qualified white person. They could careless as long as the person isn’t black.

    Not to mention how in the hell does any of these people know if the person who got the job was qualified or not. It is just ridiculous.

    Thanks for the reply.

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