White Bigots A Plenty

It is increasingly hard not to just wipe my hands and throw them in the air when reading the plethora of racist statements that some white people have no problem posting when they are well hidden behind an IP address. It is no doubt that these same bigots are out mingling with their black coworkers, neighbors or even (so called) friends. I was reading the comments from a site called AJC. I guess it wouldn’t matter since I write posts with the hopes of opening the eyes of the black community. Nothing I write is directly aimed at the white population, but if they read it and can take something from what I say then I feel that I have served a purpose.

Now this site was talking about the fact that there is a new black news channel in the works. The people who came to comment about the channel were indignant that blacks would even have the gall to think that they needed something other than the news that is already being shown. Yet the comments were nothing more than racist attacks cloaked in “hey, I’m just being real” type of talk. With statements such as: By Moesha

May 28, 2008 8:52 AM |

I can see an evening’s lead headlines now:

DA MAN is STILL Keeping Us Down, Yo!!!!!!!”

“A Beautiful Black Queen is Missing, and They Ain’t Nobody Looking for Her Because She Ain’t Some Pretty WHITE GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!”

“Mike Vick, Football Hero and Innocent Man, is Still Behind Bars Tonight for No Reason”

“BOO GOT SHOT! BOO GOT SHOT!”

And we wonder why people like myself work to expose this type of hypocrisy. There are 299 comments and the majority of them follow this vain of logic. Yet people such as Tom a 55 year old white guy (that is how he describes himself) will come to my Blog and say: “Since then all of White America has done a remarkable turn around in our beliefs and values and have accepted African Americans, Women, Latinos, American Indians and others as equals. Just like I keep saying that we are NOT considered equal nor are we accepted by whites. The constant stereotyping that we have to endure and someone is going to tell me that we are valued as equal, please.

We have to endure this same stereotyping on the news, television programming and from these idiots hiding on the internet. They want to pigeon hole all blacks as being a certain poor, not interested in school, ghetto thug, saggy pants wearing, gun toting, gang joining, welfare accepting, unemployed individual that sure probably exists. Yet is that indicative of ALL blacks? Yet if I were to sit here and say that ALL whites were racist bigots, living in some low class trailer park, married to a sibling, picking a banjo, all the while pilfering the welfare system dry; I would be pounced upon by a ton of white and blacks who know this to be a falsehood.

So why is it that these stereotypes seem to be so prevalent in a lot of white minds? I have white people who comment on my Blog continuously and a lot of them will talk of how they don’t harbor any stereotypes of blacks and how non prejudiced they are, then turn around and say some crap such as blacks wouldn’t be where they are if they would just get an education and use proper English. Am I really supposed to believe that they are NOT bigots? It is getting harder and harder to just look at a white person and not think this could be one of those bigots hiding behind their IP address.

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23 Comments

Filed under African American, American society, Black community, Black Culture, Black People, Minorities, Racism, Rant, Social Issues

23 responses to “White Bigots A Plenty

  1. Yea, I was going to post about this too over at my blog. I was reading all the sites in regards to this black news channel and I was shcoked and saddened by the ignorance that I kept reading in regards to it. However I kept reminding myself that here in America, ignorance and prejudice are readily embraced.

  2. Rob Hiengler

    Surely the problem is stereotyping on the mainstream news and popular media which should be the issue dealt with. If these media are the only source of information for a white person on an ethnic group then one cannot expect the ill educated to have any other viewpoint.

    I would think that launching a mainstream news channel with a fairer reporting method and representation rather than a black news channel would be the way forward.

    It already seems to be a divisive issue and you already hear cries of “reverse-racism” is this indicative of a backlash or covert racism; considering it seems that you’ve just painted with a broad brush that every white person is secretly a bigot and racist.

    Does a specific separate news channel not reinforce segregation? Multicultural societies should be willing to share their similarities and celebrate their differences (not to emphasise them).

    From a european viewpoint the US in general seems to have a much larger persistant problem with ethnic integration.

  3. Rob,

    I guess you failed to understand the post. That happens. The point I was making was NOT that white people are secret bigots. I was saying that the people who visited that site and said the things they said were bigots. If every white person in America visited the site with the same bigoted messages then I guess your take would be correct, but that was NOT the case.

    Anyhow, I don’t see a cry of racism from white people who look at the daily news and see that it is skewed towards themselves. Do white people cry racism at the fact that there is an Asian and Hispanic news outlets? Or is it just the thought of a black news outlet that causes them (the people posting on that site) problems?

    It would be great if we could just wave a magic wand and stop all the stereotyping on television, but I am a realist. I can see that it doesn’t require stereotyping on TV to get those ignorant people to think bigoted thoughts. They do that with or without them. It is acquired through personal means such as family, friends and coworkers.

    Also, why is it necessary for blacks to be overly concerned with how white people feel about what we do or wish to do? When white people run a television station such as Discovery channel that has slim to no blacks on this channel, are they concerned that there will be backlash from the black community? Are they concerned of cries of racism?

    Obviously not since there is Discover which has multiple channels, Animal channel, TLC and so many more that have NO blacks on them. And no white people say a thing. It is OK, it is acceptable. Those channels are obviously run by and run for white people. Yet the minute a black person wants to do ONE channel it is met with cries of reverse racism, or segregation etc. Is the discovery channel practicing segregation?

    Unfortunately, I personally feel that I nor any other black should have to have the APPROVAL of white people to do something for the black community. So if someone wants to start a news channel geared towards blacks, Asians, Hispanics or to the deaf it is their prerogative. I know that you will say that “if it were a channel saying that they were gearing news towards whites, blacks would be in uproar.”

    Well those channels already exist, they are called cable network news and local news.

    Thank you for the reply.

  4. That was a most appropriate response! I wanted to make my own response to Rob but you really summed up everything nicely.

    Peace

  5. Rob Hiengler

    Actually I understood the post quite well thank you, if you read the blog response posts on that site actually you can find bigots from both sides so surely this should be fairly represented in your blog I would expect a 9:1 ratio based on demographics. You also make the assumption that all the posters of bigotry towards blacks are all necessarily white (one can say that is bigotry in itself).

    The issue is not whether you should be concerned about white peoples feelings but whether a separate black news channel aimed at blacks is necessary for social cohesion and whether it is actually more divisive? Will these channels also hire people of other ethnic groups? Does a black, asian hispanic separate news channel promote colour blindness in modern society.

    Most Americans do believe what they see on TV; you were completely sold on the Iraq war and fundamentalist arabs by the media; by refusing to change and engage the mass media you just reinforce negative stereotypes.

    http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=28501933d0e5c5344b21f9640dc13754

    As for Hispanics and Asians having there own channels – are you telling me there wasn’t one single complaint even from far right wing white groups. Additionally you can’t say that the perception and treatment of the black community is the same as that of asian or hispanic communities. As you said you’re a Realist. In addition how will being treated differently result in people treating you equally?

    In regards to the discovery channel quite honestly what we get here I see a fair representation of ethnic groups – Mythbusters for instance is a venerable cornucopia of a UN peace rally but quite honestly I don’t conciously look for these things. Should every programme have one person of every ethnic group? or is that pandering to tokenism.

    In comparison to the UK for example whose population is 85% white british, the majority of ethnic groups receive fair representation in news media, popular culture, sports, government and entertainment without the need to pander to the minority. I’m sure you’ll point out the Asian network and Mobo awards but again these celebrate cultural differences. In fact unfortunately racism in the UK is more against migrant Eastern European workers from all British ethnic groups.

  6. Rob,

    I read the comments as well and you felt that the black commenter’s were being bigoted then I guess you will write a post about it. I unfortunately didn’t feel they were. So as far as being fair I felt that I was fair, if you don’t then I guess you can blog about that too.

    When white people own channels that are showing only white people aimed at white people and ignoring the minority population, does this promote divisiveness? Why don’t we take a look at television as it is and ask those questions. Why aren’t any of those white people complaining about the black news channel complaining that there are many channels where you won’t see a black?

    There is NO such thing as color blindness nor would I want there to be. I see in color, I don’t base the worthiness of people based on this fact. So we don’t need to be color blind to respect people.

    I don’t know about you but I wasn’t sold on the war in Iraq nor was I sold on the worthiness of fundamental Arabs by anyone. That is an ignorant person who doesn’t question what they see on television. I personally know people were racist against Arabs and Muslims long before 9/11 or the Iraq war.

    Also, you are being very simplistic and trying to play down people being savvy enough to be racist without television. Blacks being stereotyped has been around long before television ever came out. So don’t blow smoke up my **** and tell me that it is ALL the televisions fault.

    I don’t know whether white people complained about the Hispanic or Asian news sources and don’t to much care. They are still in existence aren’t they? There are white people sending letters to their cable providers threatening to pull their money when and if they get this programming. I guess the television is causing them to do this as well.

    I’m sorry but the one Asian man on mythbusters does not make it a cornucopia of anything. Or are you mistaking the show mythbusters for something called mythspreaders. Because that show has ZERO blacks, Hispanics or Native Americans. But hey they have an Asian guy that makes this show above reproach right?

    LOOK at the whole damn channel. Give me the shows that are run, produced, hosted and deal with minorities? You can’t name ONE. Because they have NO shows that are about blacks, star blacks, employ blacks behind the scenes or close to it. NO every show should full of white people because no one from any other race wants to do any television shows. We just want to watch whites on television. We would never want to see people who look like ourselves like white people obviously do.

    Why is showing people of all ethnicities pandering? Is showing ALL white people ALL the time pandering to the white population or does that exist? I don’t really care about the UK. I don’t live there I live in the US and am talking about this place that affects me. I am sure there are plenty of minorities in the UK who have their own blogs dealing with whatever it is they have to deal with.

    So lets keep it on the topic at hand. How the United States chooses to ignore its minorities when it comes to the media then complain when they want to do something for themselves.

    Thanks for the reply.

  7. Rob Hiengler

    Quite frankly I don’t think I need to write a post or blog about it, its quite clear if you even read half the comments that bigotry isn’t limited to one racial group.
    You also seem to respond assuming that I’m white: Infact I’m [quarter black/ quarter white] german and [quarter indian/ quarter chinese] malaysian not that it matters and work in both Europe and sometimes the US and yes there is such thing as colour blindness, meaning not judging one by the colour of their skin (and yes medically colour blindless does exist
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness )
    – I’ve also experienced racism from certain individuals of all cultures and races.

    Concerning the Discovery channel it is broadcast throughout the entire world, 500 million households most of them non-white in 20 different languages are you telling me this American based company hires whites only. I know for a fact that Mae Jemison worked as a scientific technical advisor for the Discovery Channel programmes and she is a certifiable role-model for anyone.

    Also in your experience does the black Canadian community complain about it considering they receive identical broadcast content as the US? (and I do believe it is important to look at lessons learned from other countries and not to trivialise it: do you think apartheid in South Africa or Nelson Mandela had no affect on society in the USA?) Is there evidence that there is an active effort to prevent topics about minorities being aired? There actually more content about China and its minorities due to the forthcoming Olympic games.

    There are several Discovery channel network shows with black individuals on such as (not an exhaustive list):

    Discovery Channel – Last One Standing

    Discovery Health – Meet the Family (then came Six – about a black family’s sextuplets but I don’t think the shows emphasis is on ethnicity), Mystery Diagnosis (black doctors and medical staff).

    Military Channel – various documentaries, more specifically historical documentarys such as the Tuskegee airmen.

    Turbo – Street Customs

    TLC – The singing office.

    Science Channel – NY08 World Science Festival Professor Sylvester James Gates is a panellist and he certainly isn’t there on the basis of his skin colour.

    – Jon and Kate make 8; has an interracial relationship yes I know he is asian and in fact there are a lot of Latino and asian presenters on discovery network).

    -FitTv – Madonna Grimes presents and hosts various Afro Latin dance related workout programmes.

    Planet Green- Ludacris is co-hosting battleground earth.

    My point is the network is designed to have a broad appeal not necessarily specific, and would you watch a show solely due to the ethnicity of its presenter(s) rather than its content?

    So I know the discovery channel does hire minorities other than the random asian guy on Mythbusters (Ishihara) quite honestly you neglect to include the rest of the support staff; camera; sound; grips writers etc. in your assessment which you occasionally see if you ever watch behind the scenes footage and the making of that make critical contributions to the show who aren’t all white. This argument seems to be a topic always raised:

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080216145137AA1hDjX

    Most people would take the view its about the content and information and not a white agenda.
    The fact is you make out to appear that the mainstream media is completely white orientated, I agree it is white dominated (but so is the country in population terms): in reality the system is changing there are also groups that help advocate diversity such as AFTRA and NAACP; given this article is four years old:

    http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-3609642/Daytime-s-other-drama-despite.html

    In terms of pandering there’s a difference between hiring someone on the basis of their race to meet a politically correct expectation or demographic targets and hiring someone regardless of their ethnicity.

    On another note I completely agree that you should have channels focused on black culture and entertainment; there already are (BET and TV One as examples) accessible for all, my argument is a national black NEWS channel, it undermines the efforts of those trying to change the system of the major news networks from within such as Adrienne Wheeler. It also by its nature says that news channel will be fairer to blacks and basically every other news channel isn’t; which infers other news channels are pro-white by default. There is also a danger that it will draw black talent away from major news networks resulting in a worse situation than already in exists and would enforce the “yours” and “ours” syndrome. In addition if a local news channel serving a majority black population which undoubtedly there are, feel that their community is misrepresented then people should write and complain not only to that station but refer it to regulatory bodies designed to promote diversity. Apathy isn’t a way for change.

    In reference to channels like telemundo; I’ll think you’ll find that Hispanic channels are in Spanish for the majority of a Spanish only speaking immigrant population which there is a large unaccounted number of illegals. Ironically America isn’t ignoring this growing minority and its purely on language and economic grounds – look at the projected demographics. In fact Hispanic networks are white owned and probably run that way at the highest echelons.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_in_the_United_States#Future_of_Spanish_in_the_United_States

    In addition are you telling me that Television and popular media has NOT contributed in a large way towards reinforcing negative stereotypes at all? Yet you complain that black people are always portrayed negatively hence the reason for a separate news channel.

    Also while you claim you weren’t swayed by the media at all how many “white” americans were? Which goes to show the media is powerful tool in persuading the masses – it takes one person to change their mind to change others and that works both ways.

    and thank you for the interesting debate.

  8. Rob,

    I don’t or didn’t assume anything about your race. I would ask you the same questions whether you were white, black, Hispanic or anything. It doesn’t matter. I don’t care to know your race because it isn’t pertinent to the case at hand. Also, don’t insult me with that stupid medical color blindness. As that only stops certain spectra of color. It does not make all people the same color so please.

    You seem to think that I should be overly concerned with blacks in other countries. Why, I don’t know? What a black in Canada sees or feels is in now way going to influence how I or any other black is treated in America so let that go. If that were the case then as talk of Apartheid, the American government supported that regime heavily and backed them to the end. So now what does that say about us?

    I understand that they (Discovery) Channel has shows with blacks or other minorities on them. That is not the question or problem. Are any of the shows aimed at a black or minority population. I guess you don’t understand that? Unfortunately, you don’t realize that people of all races have differences in their lives which makes them culturally different. That is a fact of life. The life of the typical black, white, Asian or Hispanic will not be the same. Yet ALL shows are shown or documented from a white perspective.

    And why is that? Because behind the scenes are a majority of white people who have never had the experience of those other races, so how can they be expected to pass this into these shows. Yet you want to name a handful of people for a company that probably hires thousands of people. It is no consolation and whites being the largest number doesn’t account for this either.

    Don’t bring BET in as some boon of black television. It is owned and operated by white people. And the programming is aimed at black stereotype only. Nothing on that channel reflects typical black life. It only seems to reflect the fringes of “ghetto fabulous” life. If all programs aimed at white people were chronicling backwoods redneck likes, would that be indicative of a channel that REALLY has the white perspective at hand?

    Just to let you know that half those shows are NOT even on television here just yet. So please! We don’t get Fit tv, and Green just came out and I know nothing of this channels just yet. I never said that the discovery channel only hired that one Asian guy. I said that this is the only person that you could name that was on a show on that channel. Again, how many of there shows are aimed at anyone besides the white population or generic population.

    I am NOT talking about pandering. Why is it that the staff is more than majority white? Are you telling me that NO blacks are applying in these places. I have looked into the background of these studios and they ARE 98% white. That goes way beyond the racial balance in America. How does this happen? There is no way unless you are saying that blacks don’t apply for jobs or are NEVER the qualified candidate. Also, when hiring hosts or getting ideas for shows, are any of those teams 100% one race besides white? Nope. Why?

    And sorry I don’t hold much stock in the NAACP or any others. I am black and understand what is or isn’t being done by these programs. You are from the school of blacks should just shut up and wait for the changes that “must” be coming. And I am from the school that says we need to change this immediately because there is NO reason I should have to turn on the television and not have any representation. Except for the minute number you name as if that is supposed to placate me.

    Well unfortunately for blacks in this country most whites have a “yours” and “ours” attitude and yet blacks shouldn’t. I don’t know if you live in the United States but race relations here isn’t this progressive melting pot that you seem to think it is. Discrimination and racism is on a daily basis. Also, it sounds as if you are from Canada. I lived in Toronto and then in Edmonton and I encountered racism just as blatant as the US in that respect. Also, I didn’t find the television there to be all that diverse. They did have a lot of Indian shows and that was way cool. Does this cause division? I think not.

    Now who is making assumptions. I never said that television NEVER contributed to disseminating stereotypes. I said that it isn’t SOLELY responsible. You act as if it is the only reason for stereotypes. Do you also agree that movies are causing kids to do crime? Or that watching television is causing people to be promiscuous? Most people will turn around and say NO. Yet then say that white people see blacks the way they do is because of television. I am saying NO television is not the only reason for whites views on minorities. That is irresponsible.

    Obviously it takes MORE than one person to change peoples views or wouldn’t racism have ended after Dr King gave whites a different view of the black community. So we know that doesn’t work, right?

    I understand where you are coming from. My problem is that people do not understand that there ARE differences between races. And I am asking for those differences to be celebrated and shown to the world. THAT is the only way to dispel stereotypes and ill feelings. Yet we still want to pretend that everyone is the same and that everyone has the same background and upbringing.

    This just isn’t so and we need to cut out the color blind everyone is the exact same. Because the only thing we are truly saying is that everyone shares the white experience and is raised according to a generic white background and we both know that a person from SE Asia does not share the background of a white person. I don’t share the same background as a white person. I would like to see shows written by people who share MY background just the way the white population has.

    Thanks for the reply.

  9. Rob Hiengler

    Who ever said I was from a school that said shut up and wait for a change? I never said that nor do I advocate it, you have to make that change. You claimed you’re a realist; is it realistic to expect immediate change. I would think not.

    Also you asked me to name black persons in high positions in media when I do and give you sources you try debunk me as trying to placate you, its pedantic to expect me to give you an exhaustive list of all employees – how is that constructive at all?
    In counter argument You keep saying I know for a fact these companies are 98% white, yet I would like to see your sources. In addition how do you know black people are being rejected from jobs solely on the basis their skin colour.

    “Unfortunately, you don’t realize that people of all races have differences in their lives which makes them culturally different.”

    Really how did you come to that assumption about me? Considering I’m of very mixed race I’m influenced by the culture of my parents and grandparents as well the countries I come from, I think I would realise that quite clearly. In fact I know black people from different socio-economic backgrounds don’t necessarily have the same culture at all. What is amazing is you wrongly assume that white people have the same culture entirely and don’t have the faculties to understand people from other cultures.

    In addition that’s your interpretation of colourblindness is acutely flawed since when does that assume that everyone has the same background and experience: its precisely that one shouldn’t assume people of a certain skin colour have the same background and experiences – therefore you can’t judge someone by the colour of their skin.

  10. Rob,

    When you say to let change happen and that the NAACP etc are trying to enact change. To me this is saying “why don’t you just let the changes take their course.” And to me that is not something I believe will happen. Those organizations haven’t exacted any changes in the last 40 or 50 years and I am supposed to believe that somehow they will do it now. No thanks.

    Also, yes being a realist I do believe that things need to just change. And by that I mean that blacks should just start making shows or news that encapsulates what they need. Regardless who likes it or who finds it divisive. There is no law or reason that change has to take years, decades or whatever. There is no reason that change can not take place immediately. It is those who aren’t willing to change who feel that change needs to take time. Haven’t we waited long enough?

    I didn’t ask you to name black people in high places. My direct question was: “Give me the shows that are run, produced, hosted and deal with minorities?” I then asked you to name the shows that were created BY black people from a black perspective starring black people. These shows don’t exist but I am sure we can do that a bunch of times for shows that are created, written, produced and star white people.

    I came to a conclusion about races being the same for you because you keep saying that these shows are NOT made from or for white peoples perspective. That to me is crazy. In order for those shows that are created, written, directed and starring white people to be from some other perspective is pretty impossible if we both agree that races have different perspective on life. It has to be from the perspective of the people creating and writing it, correct? So if they aren’t of a white perspective then please tell me whose perspective they are from?

    You are simplifying things. I am looking at a BIG picture. I know blacks who weren’t raised like me as well but we share a LOT of details that make our heritage the same. I am NOT saying that there is ONE mold and everyone from a particular race fits it each and every time. I am talking about the majority of people. And yes that includes white people. If this were not true then most races of people would NOT be able to identify closely with one another. So I really think you understand what I am getting at.

    I don’t have a clue what you are talking about with the colorblindness and backgrounds. I said that when we ASSUME that everyone shares the same experience as the white oriented shows on television that we are saying that they are from some generic white based background. When everyone is not. I said that being color blind does NOT render one unable to distinguish between races of people.

    So to clarify this for you. If you are to say that all of these shows which are based on the typical white person, having been created, written, produced and acted out by white people. You are making the assumption that for other ethnicities will identify with them. Is to say that these ethnicities share the typical white persons perspective. And what I am saying is that this just isn’t so, therefore, MOST other ethnicities who are proud of their heritage would enjoy seeing shows that are created, written, directed and acted out based on the typical person of their ethnicity.

    Hopefully that clarifies things for you. I am saying that these channels lack any ethnic perspectives. Not that they don’t have a few other ethnicities besides white people working for them. If a grocery store caters to Asian people and sells items a typical Asian would like to buy, I don’t think you would tell me that the typical white person would feel represented by this store.

    Take that and reverse it and that is how I see television and movies. I am not saying that other ethnicities on shows don’t exist. I am saying they are inaccurate stereotypes at best. Because they are being written and produced by people who can only show you how a certain ethnic person is from their own perspective which is usually not correct.

    One shouldn’t judge anyone by the color of their skin, but it happens everyday. So how do you control how people prejudge others? You can’t! We have been trying for years and it hasn’t worked yet. We claim that we don’t hire based on race yet you see it happening every day. When you can have a company that is 100% white, you have a problem. The only way that can happen is for you to have a business in an area that has absolutely NO minorities in the area at all.

    Yet we have hundreds of companies that have absolutely NO minorities. And a lot of these companies are in high minority areas. How does this happen? This is what I see at the television studios. You can name these people but what difference does it make if they hire thousands of people and their roster is still 98% white. That tells me that there is something wrong with their hiring practices. You nor anyone else can tell me that there are NO qualified minorities anywhere around that have applied for employment. And minority doe NOT = unqualified.

    thanks for the reply.

  11. “Give me the shows that are run, produced, hosted and deal with minorities?” I then asked you to name the shows that were created BY black people from a black perspective starring black people.
    These shows don’t exist …

    Okay, so My smart aleck side came out….any John Singleton production, and almost everything Wayans. (sorry, the red carpet rolled itself out in front of me, and I could no longer hold it in…I have to be sarcastic or I’ll explode!)

  12. Mike,

    I don’t know of ONE show that Singleton has on any prime time station. Also, the Wayan’s are you joking? The Wayan’s don’t write and produce shows for blacks, they write and produce stereotypical shows with blacks in them for a white audience. Don Reo is the main writer for the show My wife and kids which is no longer on the air. And he is also the same writer for Mash, Rhoda and a plethora of other shows aimed at white people. So please give me a break.

    I said WRITTEN, produced, starring black people. I can even name you a ton of stereotypical (how the dominant culture likes to see blacks) shows as well. But I want to see shows that show REAL black lives. Not the lives that white people “think” we lead. Not the ghetto fabulous, overly funny, hip hop, drug dealing, criminal being people. You know there is more to black people except comedy and crime.

    Hey how about Everybody Hates Chris? Another jigaboo show with a black person bugging his eyes out like the black buffoons of old. We need, deserve better than this tripe. Where the hell are our One Tree Hills, Brothers and Sisters, Heroes or The Office? They are nowhere because they don’t involve a criminal, a hip hop fool, a prostitute, a ghetto fabulous jigaboo or too funny for life person.

    So then why shouldn’t black people start their own channel that WILL play the non stereotypical black person in shows that don’t always deal with the funny or the criminal. We have The Wire (criminals), House of Payne (comedy), College Hill (junk). The rest is junk as well and not without the typical stereotypes.

    Also, the best thing that Singleton has done was Rosewood other than that his stuff is stereotypical. Blacks as criminals, gang bangers etc. When do we get movies such as Soul food? It was a bit over the top with the phony slang talking sisters. But it was the closest thing to a black life that I have seen. Even though they couldn’t get away from the criminal and some stereotypes.

    It is just frustrating to say the least. Trust me if there was a show out there written by blacks not containing stereotypes I would be watching it. And if you can think of one that isn’t on cable as I am not buying cable to see it, then clue me in.

    Thanks for the reply.

  13. Rob Hiengler

    I’m gave the NACCP as an example; do you really think that is the only group promoting diversity and are you telling no progress at all has been made in 50 years!? In addition since when did I say “just let change happen” you’re putting words into my mouth. The fact is there are organisations helping promote diversity and its important to support them and engage in the process and identify the problems and issues rather than dismiss them as ineffectual.

    I don’t deny that there are a large number of shows which are white orientated entertainment but how does a knowledge based programme or be geared from a white persons perspective. How would a programme like Megastructures be made black? Are you saying blacks are not interested in Engineering, Science and Technology?

    The fact is there are black writers in the industry there is still a problem of under-representation of minorities and women (including white) across the media which I never denied.

    Ok you did say:

    “Give me the shows that are run, produced, hosted and deal with minorities?”

    On Discovery Network specifically dealing with issues with minorities in the US there isn’t one. This would be more a politics debate programme, and possibly wouldn’t be able to constitute a channel on its own.

    “I then asked you to name the shows that were created BY black people from a black perspective starring black people.”

    If you are talking about shows in general across media that are run, produced and hosted by black americans – yes they exist.

    Everybody Hates Chris – UPN
    are you telling me BET and TVOne programmes don’t count at all and why not?

    but you also wrote: “because they have NO shows [regarding discovery] that are about blacks, star blacks, employ blacks behind the scenes or close to it.” – not true.

    Regarding minorities in media and specifically BET in the first link (being all white) please listen to the links below (these things aren’t being brushed under the carpet) not to mention the power of the media:

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/firmbutfair/2008/06/02/AGENTS-OF-CHANGE-What-Can-Black-America-Do-to-Reclaim-Its-Image

    http://odeo.com/audio/12429323/view

    Again you haven’t given me the demographics on a network such as discovery you still just assume its 98% white across the board.

    At the end of the day I’m not arguing the fact that you shouldn’t have black run or orientated shows.

    Regarding your comment “If a grocery store caters to Asian people and sells items a typical Asian would like to buy, I don’t think you would tell me that the typical white person would feel represented by this store.” Its rather different than media programming, its like a saying a white person wouldn’t eat or cook asian food or use their ingredients because its not for whites as they don’t identify with it using your logic. On this point anime is pretty big in America is it only Japanese americans watching and buying this media? As for looking at the big picture you said yourself you don’t care about blacks in other countries only the US: we live in a global world programmes are seen in many countries across the world, it seems to me you are looking at the BIG picture from a narrow perspective.

  14. Like I said Black Sentinel, I was being a smart aleck….(thus the wayans reference)
    There was one shortlived show, produced (at least in part by) Will Smith….it reruns on the CW (the old WB) during the afternoon….it seemed like your regular sitcom, wish I could remember the name of it. The tv is usually on as background noise during the day than anything. It seemed okay to me (I prefer sitcoms over all this reality and gameshow crap they air these days—by the way, I personally liked MASH thank you very much!) As for the majority of the shows you mentioned like one tree hill, and all that….YUCK! Why would you ever want THAT? And The Office, I’m sorry, I just can not get into that show. I have a wide range when it comes to humor, but that one doesn’t fit.
    As for cable…I don’t have cable, wont pay for it either!!!
    As for Rosewood…I thought that was a great movie. Picked it up on a whim actually, as I hadn’t heard of it before renting the movie. Nice to see something based at least somewhat on a true historical event, and does go to show what you have said in other threads about a white girl blaming a black man for something, and what can happen in the aftermath of such false accusations to further invalid thought processes and prejudices.

  15. Mike,

    I understand that you were being facetious but I had to make sure that my onlookers didn’t take it and run with it. It was more for others benefit than you. I don’t know what show Will Smith had out except for the Fresh Prince and that has white writers as well. And it still follows the buffoon jigaboo of old.

    Also, I don’t necessarily want to see any of those shows black or white. But they were the top shows this year. So I used them as example, not as literal wants. Thanks though. And we will be some anti cable people together. Yeah!

    Also, I agree that Rosewood was a good movie it had substance and a plot. Something you don’t see anymore.

    Thanks for the reply.

  16. Rob,

    I am going to let the Everyone Hates Chris crap slide since this reply obviously came before the conversation with Mike. But please the writers on that show are white so how do they write from a black perspective? They don’t! And I have never heard of TVone, so can’t speak to anything they do. Also, the writers on UPN are majority white so how do these people write from a black perspective? I wish you would answer that one.

    Also, don’t try to be insulting. I never said anything about megastructures. That is not a show that was ever named. But since I do watch that show and yest I am sure plenty of others do as well. But, I can say as I do watch this show it does show me a lack of black representation in the construction industry. Or are you going to tell me that the construction companies that are chronicled are very diverse? They are not but hey so is life in employment here in the states.

    You CAN’T give me ONE example so you cling to the happy thoughts that sure their are some blacks working in the industry. Did I ever say there were not? I agree there are some. But are they being given the green light to make shows that appeal to other ethnicities? I guess not since you can’t seem to point any out.

    BET was discussed as well and that is ALL stereotype or did you see the channel and assume that is what blacks like. There are so many blacks calling for that channel to be either taken off the air or revamped. The channel was bought out by a white company long ago and has been showing f-ed up programming ever since. All in a stereotypical ghetto fabulous fashion. So give me a break. If all white programs on television were of Monster trucks and dirt bikes, I think white people would say that those programs don’t appeal to all whites.

    And about the Asian food store. I said the typical person from the white race would not say that the store represents them. And I meant from a daily shopping store. So don’t try to be dense. You and I both know that the average white person does not do the plethora of their shopping in ethnic stores for daily supplies. Next you will tell me that the Hispanic stores are where Jamaicans intend to do all their shopping daily.

    We may live in a global programming market. But I don’t get shows from other countries so I guess they don’t apply do they? So I can’t sit and focus on every black person in another country when I don’t know what their deal is. I can only focus on what I know is going on. If blacks in other countries are happy or angry they can deal with it. Since they know the particulars of their situation. You don’t even speak to how the white people don’t care about the skewed programming in THIS country, yet you think I should be concerned with people from other countries. Please!

    Thanks for the reply.

  17. Robert Hiengler

    Really did you actually listen to any of those radio podcasts; white people don’t care? That’s just a generalised, trivialised opinionated statement. Has there been a opinion poll on this or do you speak for all whites. In addition again, no facts or information to back up your statements.

    I would also care for you not to continuously insult me as being dense, as if that gives any verisimilitude to your argument.

  18. Rob Hiengler

    The fact is you refuse to look at other TV channels, and in fact the UK has been exporting documentaries about America to the US for at least a decade: so there’s really no excuse.

    About TvOne your claim that you don’t watch it doesn’t negate the fact that it provides shows about blacks for blacks – and don’t tell me
    Rose Catherine Pinkney the programming director is white and its white run because she is black. You have a choice – you choose not to watch it.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/11/arts/television/11one.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

    In addition America is becoming more diverse everyday; I feel there are some people who want to keep the divisions along old lines.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18090277/

    or is this just propaganda?

  19. Rob,

    I am guessing that you aren’t just playing dense. I said that I don’t GET those channels not that I refuse to look at them. What is wrong with you?

    Did I ever say that I didn’t see programming from the UK. But is the UK making shows IN AMERICA? Are they using AMERICAN workers? Then that is NOT the issue.

    I NEVER SAID I WOULD NOT WATCH THIS TVONE. I SAID WE DON’T GET THAT STATION. So I went to your TVone online and the programming they have IS black people. The shows happen to be OLD SHOWS that already were shown and went off the air here due to lack of viewers. WHY? Because they are stereotypical shows about black people WRITTEN by WHITE WRITERS!!!!

    What about NON STEREOTYPICAL SHOWS, “WRITTEN”, PRODUCED AND STARING black people don’t you understand? NONE of those shows have black writers. I have seen them and know them and hate them just like the rest of the people obviously since they couldn’t stay on the air here.

    Just because America is becoming diverse DOES NOT MEAN THAT RACISM IS DEAD!!! Damn, what does getting more diversity mean if those ethnicities are not being represented? What is propaganda is people who insist that just because they can find one black in a corporation of one thousand, the company is diverse or non racist. Give me a break. You never could name one show, because it doesn’t exist. You and I both know this.

    You are wasting your time trying to argue that shows written and produced by white people with black actors is going to be a black show. Are you telling me that white writers should be able to write a show about Chinese people’s lives and be able to capture ALL the nuances and idiosyncrasies that make the Chinese race of people who they are? Because you somehow seem to think that white people are able to write them for blacks.

    Instead of just biting the bullet and letting blacks write those shows since it would be more convincing for plot, dialog and so forth. But of course blacks couldn’t possibly be trusted to write a sensible show that would appeal to everyone. NO we need to rely on white people to tell us how blacks behave with one another inside their private lives away from other races. Sure white people have that insight into the soul of what makes a black family tick and how they interact on a one on one basis.

    Give me a freaking break. It doesn’t matter how many so called “black” shows we name, they seem to have ONE thing in common white people behind the scenes writing the interaction. I believe that people like you will come up with every excuse you can to show that it is fine that the dominant community is controlling every aspect of the media. It is ridiculous.

    Lets just leave it at that. Because you won’t answer the question. You won’t admit that you have found absolutely NO shows that are NOT stereotypical that are written, produced and star black people. You won’t admit that the media is written for and from a white perspective. You simply would like to talk about the same old BS of what is divisive ONLY when black people want something for themselves. Yet white people have ALL the news channels from their perspective and somehow that isn’t keeping the division lines going nor is it divisive in itself.

    Thanks but no thanks.

  20. Rob,

    Already called you dense again before I got your last comment, too bad. Anyway, I understand that white people don’t care. THAT IS THE POINT!!! Everything in the media is going their way so why the hell would they care?

    They don’t care until we would like to break off and do something for ourselves that obviously if we sit around maybe in another 50 or 60 years we can actually see change. But unfortunately I don’t believe that it needs to take that long to get some damn diversity in the media.

    I have ALL THE FACTS IN THE WORLD! Just look at the freaking television. Damn if you need more than that then forget it you are NEVER going to see! You can’t even name any shows so now you want me to prove what to you. That indeed there aren’t any shows? Really is that necessary?

    Where is your proof. You keep claiming all this diversity yet all you can show me is a bunch of jigabooing black faces backed up by white writers. Where is the diversity in the writers guild? Where are all these supposed diverse shows that show non stereotypical Asians, blacks, Hispanics or Native Americans? Where are all the writers with the same nationalities as named above?

    So it seems to me that the one who lacks any proof is the one trying to convince everyone else that white writers intrinsically now the souls of all other races and are able to write shows without the stereotype of how “they see” minorities and not how “they really” are.

    thanks

  21. Rob Hiengler

    Who ever said Racism is dead (its quite clear its not: again your putting words in my mouth) – I don’t think I ever said or implied that in any way?

    When was I trying to convince you that white writers intrinsically know the “souls” of all other races (again putting words into my mouth); what I was trying to show actually there are predominantly black writes in BET as she said up to 20% whites on any one program. You said there are no black writers, I’ve shown that there are (on a side point that white writer interviewed was talking about trying to get the nuances etc.); yes black writers are under-represented in the mainstream that came through in both interviews- but there are other reasons than just Racism –
    why don’t you read the latest Writers Guild Report on Diversity? Did you fail to hear in the interview that there are actually an increasing number of minorities and black writers in junior positions but retention is a problem. Its a problem for women writers as well not just minorities – then again you already have all the facts.

    Are these examples not good enough for you..

    “Baisden After Dark”
    “Divine Restoration”
    “Gospel of Music”
    “Sharp Talk”
    “The Funny Spot”
    “Turn up the Heat”

    are these written by white writers starring black stereotypes? I’m sure you’re going to say yes they are.

    No-one said black people have all the shows they need and that there shouldn’t be more; in fact that’s what the article in the NY times was all about. A major problem becomes a question of economics why do you think the series “City of Angels” was cancelled after 2 seasons, because of Racism? That show had black actors written by black writers; but I guess you’re going to say it has a white producer so it doesn’t count. Oh and at the end of the day who was writing to not to get it cancelled – black people and minorities – so tell me are black doctors negative stereotypes? What about the “Black Family Channel” it failed because it couldn’t get a wide enough distribution but it was owned by blacks for blacks. If you don’t get TVone then well I guess they need to improve distribution but how is that my fault? Then again they have video on demand.

    Do you realise how hard it is to start up a channel, recruit the necessary talent and resources, the logistics and coming up with programmes; what capital is involved? You can’t just snap your fingers and have 10 new networks. Why do you think 70% of TV-One content are reruns and movies, in addition TV-One has only been around 4 years its still developing.

    On that note you seem to have all the ideas on what’s missing: here is the link for pitching them; and I honestly will look forward to watching your inspired content (and I’m being absolutely serious just in case you figured I was being dense or facetious)

    http://www.tvoneonline.com/inside%5Ftvone/producer_guidelines.asp

    Hopefully people will actually follow, read, listen to some of those links I posted and make their own minds up.

    If being derogatory helps you feel better well then kudos to you, but I don’t think there’s any need for ad hominem argument is there.

    On a side note: yes the BBC is using American workers; it produces BBC America for the Discovery Network. You might be pleasantly suprised how much fairer the news reporting is, then again maybe not.

    Here’s a couple of very recent documentaries that I can remember produced of financed in part by the UK by black writers/presenters about black people in the US:

    Martin Luther King: American Prophet 2008
    The World Uncovered – Race Hate in Louisiana

    and not so recent

    When the Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts

    that’s all I have to say about that, goodbye and best wishes.

  22. Rob,

    In case you hadn’t noticed I SAID RACISM WASN’T DEAD! I in no way said that was what you said. I, me, was making a statement about what I hear when people constantly try and talk about how much diversity there is somewhere. That means just about diddly in the big scheme of things if one race continues to be dominant. That was my point.

    Also, I have never heard of any of these shows. What broadcast station are they on? Let’s put it this way, it seems to ME that you think any show on television which has black actors makes it a black oriented show. I mean it has to be NUMBER ONE NON STEREOTYPICAL! That is constantly something I keep saying to you. But like I said I have no idea what these shows are or what channels they run on. So it would be silly of me to speak about them.

    And again you make my point with the black family channel. Why couldn’t it get support? Did blacks say they didn’t want a black family channel? Or did owners of distribution of media make that decision? And how many minorities own these distribution outlets? So thank you for more proof.

    Thanks to you

  23. michelle

    Just to vent…what really bugs me: the people I have to hang out with all day–my co-workers. Here is a secret… among other white people they let down their guard. They seem to believe that all ‘whites” think like them. They simply think they are better than “non-whites”. They catoregize people based on color, race, economic status, etc. Infuriatingingly, they fail to realize their prejudices. They simply think they are superior. Ugh.

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