When Will Those In The White Race Stop The Harrassment

I had titled this post “When will blacks get over slavery” which was a play on guywhite’s post called “Typical black arguments.” His complaint is that somehow blacks will never get over the history of slavery and give these supposed idiotic rote arguments as to why we constantly talk about slavery. As if slavery is the first thing out of a black person’s mouth in any type of conversation about anything. Now as I read his post and did my own research for this post I wondered why he doesn’t do a post on the white races obvious pathology.

It seems to me that the white race or at least a lot of those within the white race have some fond penchant for torturing people. White people have and are torturing Africans, Native Americans, Muslims, Indians, Inuit, Pacific Islanders, Mexicans and others of Latin descent and Jewish people. And when posed with a lack of other races to torture they resorted to torturing others from their own race such as the Russians, Polish, Irish, Scottish, homosexuals and others.

Why do a lot of those in the white race constantly have to cause so many problems in so many other races? He talks to no end about mostly the black races problems with the white race and yet, somehow fails to mention that pretty much every race on earth has had to complain about white people. Maybe instead of focusing on others he will focus on trying to help the white race to end this almost psychotic need to ruin the lives of other races.

Very few whites hate you and absolutely nobody hates you because of your skin color. But when undeniable evidence of black high crime and low IQ is presented (on average, not universally), you argue that we just hate you because of your skin color. You say that only because you have nothing else to say to respond to us.

guywhite

Most people with an IQ of over 50 understand that the criminal justice system is flawed. We all know that there is systemic racism in accordance with policing, arresting and sentencing of criminals. And according to a 2005 study by the Justice Department found that while Hispanic, black and white drivers were stopped by the police about as often, Hispanic drivers or their vehicles were searched 11.4 percent of the time and blacks 10.2 percent of the time, compared with 3.5 percent for white drivers. Data collected from state courts by the Justice Department also shows that a higher percentage of black felons than white felons receive prison sentences for nearly all offenses, and also that blacks receive longer maximum sentences for most offenses.

So it should be quite obvious to guywhite and any other person that given the current state of systemic racism in this country and the fact that the department of justice who admits that white people are less likely to even be stopped, charged or given a sentence in prison as to why blacks are over represented. But of course he will over look or blatantly deny that the department of justice even admits to this regardless of the facts. Or better yet he will claim that whites don’t do crime and that is why they don’t need to be stopped etc. When the facts show otherwise. We all see white crime in action day in and day out, yet being called white collar crime it doesn’t attach itself to the doj statistics.

He claims that blacks have this failing IQ yet, according to a Harvard study on IQ between blacks and whites they say “The constancy of the black/white IQ gap is a myth. Blacks have gained 5 or 6 IQ points on whites over the last 30 years. Neither changes in the ancestry of those classified as black nor changes in those who identify as black can explain more than a small fraction of this gain. Therefore, environment has been responsible. The last two decades have seen both positive and negative developments: gains in occupational status and school funding have been accompanied by more black preschoolers in single-parent homes and lower income in those homes (Neal, in press). We believe that further black environmental progress would engender further black IQ gains.” Not to mention if you read the report given a situation where the schools are equal there is absolutely NO difference in IQ. But, of course lets make sure that some schools have poor resources and a lack of teachers then point to them and say “they are not as smart as us.” When a just and equal person would place everyone at the same starting line before trying to start a race. But we all know that has never been the white race’s way, to actually allow things to be fair and let the best rise. They made that mistake once when letting sports become fair games and we see who has risen to the top of that arena.

So how do you explain the fact that dirt-poor white Polish immigrants who came to the US in 2000 are already wealthier than you guys are? How come whites who are penniless become wealthier than blacks within half a dozen years after coming to the US, even if they came here without speaking a word of English?

guywhite

According to Steven Steinberg, today, just as in the past, some immigrants are becoming “white” while others are becoming “black.” A changing but strong racial hierarchy in the United States continues to act as a sorting mechanism. In the past century, groups such as the Irish, Italians, and Jews in America started low on the socioeconomic and political ladder and ‘became white’ over time. According to the Aspen Institute “more recently, ‘model minority’ status has been given to some Asian groups, allowing group members to gain access to some of the privileges associated with whiteness.” Sadly, the enduring fact, as Steinberg rightly casts the spotlight on, is that African Americans have by and large been closed off from the pathways to opportunity. Only in times of mass social movements that give primacy to the conditions of African Americans that actions or inactions of progressive allies have been able to make strides forward, such as in the Civil Rights Movement.

So in simpler terms just coming to America with white skin gives immigrants a boost in social and economic status. So to pose such a question as to why white skin people coming to a country with privilege for those with white skin is asinine. I guess we can just look at the Polish people and visibly ascertain their skin color. And according to Poloniatoday the Polish newcomers integrated faster into a new life and new conditions, than their predecessors.

Most of them were young and middle-aged people, who tried to be active in their professional lives. They also had a difficult beginning, but solved their problems faster. Those people, who represented a more elevated socioeconomic status, avoided the Polish community and attempted to integrate with American society. But after a few years of “acclimatization” they began to be more Polish oriented. It has been expressed in their participation in the existing professional Polish organizations (such as physicians, engineers, etc.), or they established new ones (e.g., the Jagiellonian University Graduates Association.)

The most recent immigrants founded numerous new regional organizations, which attracted people arriving from the same part of Poland. It is a very interesting phenomenon, which can be interpreted as the sociological necessity to be “together” with compatriots in a “foreign world.” It is a sort of manifestation of the strong ties with the so-called “small homeland.” So it would seem from this Polish news source that the Polish people who have been integrating for a long time now have NO problems gaining wealth via white privilege in this country.

That was 150 years ago. Descendants of Russian serfs have plenty to pass to their kids. Holocaust victims came out of Auschwitz and became wealthy. Indians, Chinese and others came here penniless and also faced discrimination. They are wealthier than whites today. Yet, you can never get over slavery. 150 years. 150 years! When will you get over it? How many years will it take?

guywhite

In case anyone was unaware, there is a difference between serfdom and slavery. Especially that which was practiced in America as serfdom was legally a servile or “unfree” status that involved personal dependence on a lord, greatly restricted freedom of action in terms of livelihood and residence, and subjection to duties considered marks of servility. Although many serfs were the descendants of household slaves, serfdom was not identical with slavery; serfs had certain legal rights and protections, and they could not be sold. They could inherit, own, and bequeath property, and the lord’s rights over their labor were restricted by local custom and tradition, which could effectively limit innovations and demands that the peasant community considered excessive. Serfs could purchase legal freedom from their lords and thus free themselves of certain arbitrary “servile” services and dues.

Once the serfs became free what would distinguish them from the land owners after 150 years of freedom? Not one thing. The serfs are the same nationality as the landowners, which any person with half a brain can surmise that they would have NO way of distinguishing one person with serf ancestry than that of a person with landowner ancestry. Yet, in the case of slave and master from America we can see an obvious difference in which the descendants of both can easily discern with the naked eye who was descended from slave and who was not. So then now we have an obvious basis for why continued persecution exist for the black race. At least this fact should be obvious again to those with half a brain that actually functions.

The case with the Jewish victims of the holocaust is an even easier one to conquer. The Jews were persecuted yes and it was a horrible travesty which occurred in Germany. Why would the Jews be doing considerably better than African Americans? Maybe the well known fact that Jews have been paid the REPARATIONS which were denied to blacks when slavery ended. Perhaps they are doing so well due to the fact that the Jews were placed in their own land far away from their tormentors.

Could it be the fact that America sends the whopping amount of 2.2 Billion dollars each and every year to ensure that this nation of abused people continues to thrive. Now if we in America were to have paid reparations to the slaves directly after slavery ended, given them land far away from their tormentors and continued to support them to the tune of 2.2 billion dollars a year, perhaps the black nation would be thriving as well.

Blacks won’t get past slavery until they have FULL equality, not just small gains here and there. Not one other race in the history of the United States has faced such systemic racism as the blacks have from the white race. It is so endemic that it is still pervasive today. We see that blacks earn only 76% of their white counterparts. A black will lose 10% off that if he sounds black according to the book Freakonomics.

Blacks have an unemployment rate of twice that of white people. The department of justice has a study showing that the department is flawed and has discrepancies in how minorities are targeted vs. whites. But we will continue to be bombarded with idiotic assertions from omniscient white people who seem to think that they know everything there is to know about blacks, black behavior, racism, the lack of racism and how it does or does not affect the black person.

And what is guywhites answer for how blacks can overcome the legacy of slavery ? Get a job, that’s how! Never mind that blacks have to work twice as hard for half as much, guywhite feels that all is need is a job. Never mind that according to the census, African Americans’ median income is still substantially lower than Whites: In 2006, their median income was $32,132, as compared to $52,432 for Whites. One of these lower paying jobs that keeps blacks far behind whites due to their need to feel superior, is somehow going to placate us into forgetting that slavery happened. Which then brings us to the systemic racism that puts us in that lower paying job. You know what would help blacks end the thoughts of slavery is to have equality. When we are allowed to participate FULLY and be treated equally we will have NO reason to think on the method that has brought us to this continued sub-existence.

It doesn’t matter that things are OBVIOUSLY skewed towards white people. It doesn’t matter that blacks ARE employed. It doesn’t matter that society at large is set up against blacks in everyway possible. According to Yale “Reagan and to a lesser extent George H. W. Bush sought to perfect what Nixon had begun. Devoted to as fully as possible restoring the normality of white skin privilege and producing silence about it as a way of redoubling its hegemony, Reagan through the use of racial symbolism such as announcing his presidential campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi (the site of the murder of three civil rights workers) and railing on and on about “welfare queens and pimps” on the campaign trail made whites comfortable with their prejudices (as former First Lady Rosalind Carter once remarked).

22 Comments

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22 responses to “When Will Those In The White Race Stop The Harrassment

  1. Dan

    Nice post!

    Also, I wanted to make this lecture available to your readers. It’s a bit large at around 460 MB, but it’s well worth it.

    Tim Wise, The Browning of America

    [video src="http://fseven.net/downloads/TheBrowningofAmerica.mp4" /]

  2. Dan

    guywhite: White people certainly aren’t talking about slavery, it’s after effects, and anything remotely related to race.

    You can’t take a group of people that have been enslaved, tortured, raped, murdered, and oppressed for over 200 years, finally give them some rights, and then expect everything to be fair and equal without even bringing it up to discussion. Because the people who WEREN’T oppressed for those 200+ years have had over 2 centuries to gather wealth, gain land, and construct a system of government and federal policies that favor them above all other groups.

    In short, the racism problem isn’t going to go away until we whites grow a fucking backbone, step up to the plate, and hold up our part of the national discourse on race and slavery that we’ve been avoiding for so long.

    I’m going to add to the crime statistics to show guywhite some shocking facts:

    There are 30.1 million African Americans over the age of 12 in the U.S. (and thus, eligible for consideration in crime data).

    If blacks commit 1 million violent crimes a year (the rough total for the most recent year on record according to the U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2004, Statistical Tables, Tables 40, 42, 46 and 48.), this means that even if we assumed each crime had a unique perpetrator (in other words, if there were no multiple offenders), the maximum percentage of blacks who were violent criminals, as a share of all blacks, would be 3.3%. Meaning that at least 96.7% will not commit a violent crime this year, let alone against a white person, let alone against a white stranger, let alone against guywhite.

    So, if the 3.3% of blacks who will commit a violent crime in a given year, somehow prove that blacks are dangerous and to be avoided, then why don’t the 96.7% who WON’T commit such a crime, equally prove that blacks are non-violent and perfectly safe to be around? After all, why should the acts of a maximum of 1 million people, be seen as a better indicator of what the group is like, than the non-acts of the other 29 million or so?

    And of course, if we are to take statistics such as these to indicate a group’s dangerousness, then we whites should have intense bias against other whites. After all, we are five times more likely to be victimized violently by another white person than by a black person (United States Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2004, Statistical Tables, (U.S. Department of Justice, 2006), tables 40, 42, 46 and 48,), and each year, far more people are killed by occupational diseases and injuries, resulting from inadequate safety and health standards in white owned corporations, than are killed in street-level homicides, let alone those committed by blacks (Jeffrey Reiman. …And the Poor Get Prison: Economic Bias in American Criminal Justice. (Boston: Allyn and Bacon, 1996); Lisa Cullen. A Job to Die For: Why So Many Americans are Killed, Injured or Made Ill at Work, and What to Do About It. (Monroe, ME: Common Courage Press, 2002). ). Yet rarely do whites seek to avoid other whites because of our documented predisposition to corporate fraud and misconduct (think Enron, think the S&L swindle, think Bhopal, India).

    You know the problem with people like guywhite, he asks all these questions that are the basis for his racism, and when his questions are answered with actual facts and figures from his own governments’ agencies, he will not change his mind. He will dismiss those facts and continue on with his racism, even though he’s had it proven just how irrational his racism is and how his racism is based in fantasy land because it obviously is not reality.

    Unfortunately, people like guywhite can’t be helped. He lacks the intelligence to allow factual information to change opinions he has that are based on absolutely nothing.

    Consider the source. That’s what I always keep in mind when dealing with ignorant people like guywhite.

  3. Dan,

    Great reply. I love your facts and statistics from the DOJ. But you are completely correct, your logic has no affect on him (stolen quip from brotherpeacemaker). I have hit him with stats and he always claims that Hispanics are counted with whites. Now I am wondering why he never says that Hispanics are in with blacks as well. Since there are black Hispanics. Anyhow, thanks for the link as well. I hope more of the readers will download that. It may be large but well worth the read.

    Thanks

  4. c

    This is an excellent post, Sentinel. Excellent. Thank you.

    The reason slavery, i think, may still be brought into the coversation of racism- and should be- is that it has yet to be dealt with. Really dealt with. People were taken from their homes, packed like sardines in boats, raped, beaten, murdered then sold like chattle. Women raped widely and repeatedly, babies sold away, working in brutal heat, sustaining injuries without treatment. Their culture- religion, language, even their very names, beaten out of them. Slaves were not allowed to read. If one escaped, he was returned. There was no safe haven.

    And while their babies were sold off, these Black mothers were to nurse and sometimes care for the children of those who destroyed their own families.

    Even after slavery was abolished, the psycopathic treatment of former slaves continued. Please tell me what kind of twisted mind came up with tarring and feathering, lynching then dragging, lynching children, mob lynching and burnings, drawing and quartering?

    For decades, Black people had to step into the street to allow White people to pass. Why? Black people could be hauled to jail for looking at a White person in the eye. Why? Black people could be brutally murdered and no one cared. Why? Still to this day, police can shoot a Black person 40, 50 times and it is justified. Why? Black people do not begin with the same advantages as “hard working Americans, White Americans” but are vilified for not assimilating into the culture that has oppressed them. Why?

    Some White people are still trying to tell us when to work, where to work, how to live, what we can do, what we “can’t”, what to think and feel and be. Why why why?

    This goes on for decades and decades, through generations of our families, all the angers, the harassments, the iniquity of it all- but we’re not human so we’re not supposed to be affected. Those affects aren’t supposed to let it affect how we deal with the world or what we teach our children. We’re supposed to get over. Most White people have. Apparently all we needed all along was a job. :p

  5. C,

    Why, why, why indeed, is my sentiment as well. Donna Lamb called the action of white people trying to tell blacks how to feel, what to think etc. as white omniscience. And it is so right on point.

    If you asked guywhite why, I am sure he would do nothing more than fill your eyes with a bunch of propaganda about black crime stats and other tripe.

    I would love to ignore people like this. But there are a lot of people like him who are the people who we as blacks have to rely on to give us employment, health care and housing. And this shows WHY blacks are lacking in all three. Because of the preconceived notions we will never get equality.

    Thanks for the great reply.

  6. Okay, so I have a question. I think by now I’ve established myself as a halfway intelligent person, albeit this subject matter is eye opening to me. I mean to ask this seriously, not as an antagonist.

    [According to Steven Steinberg, today, just as in the past, some immigrants are becoming “white” while others are becoming “black.”]

    I’m not sure what this means. What is it to be white or be black (outside of obvious skin color)? And how does one “become” one or the other?

    I figure this can help educate me, and maybe other readers who might be afraid to ask such a question for fear of sounding ignorant. I have no such fear, as I accept ignorance to things as a reality.

  7. Mike,

    Don’t worry about sounding like an antagonist. Anyway, what the guy means is that when immigrants come to this country they are considered outsiders no matter the race of the individual. Sort of like when the Italians and the Polish or Irish came here back in the day. They were subjected to a kind of racism.

    In more recent times these same immigrants are still coming here and they are now being accepted as white and afforded white privilege. Contrast that with Hispanics or Muslims who can consist of white or black persons. But due to their low standing in the eyes of the white community they are now grouped low with blacks and denied the privileges that come with associating with the white race.

    It is very interesting what he is speaking about. It says a lot about the sinister motives of racial profiling.

    Thanks

  8. Dan

    Mike, in my first comment in this thread, I provided a link to a lecture given by Tim Wise. The topic is ‘The Browning of America: Affirmative Action and Institutional Racism’.

    During the lecture, Tim explains how the concept of ‘whiteness’ was created, and to be clear, the concept was an early American creation.

    In short, Tim explains that when the Irish and Italians, to name a few, arrived in America, they did so usually under indentured servitude; meaning they were one step away from slavery themselves.

    Eventually, slave owners began to realize that they were paying these poor European immigrants when they could be getting labor for free through enslaved Africans.

    Around the same time, the poor European immigrants began to realize that they had more in common with the Africans they were working alongside and toiling with as opposed to those rich white guys in the big houses. So the poor European indentured servants began fraternizing with the African slaves. In time, due to their sheer numbers, the slave owners were frightened and threatened with revolts and rebellions. They had to figure out a way to put an end to this.

    They did so by making the very color of skin a commodity. They said to these indentured servants, ‘Tell you what, we will release you from indentured servitude, make you citizens of the United States, even allow you to purchase and own land. But in return for this, we require you to serve on slave patrols.’

    This had a double pronged effect. First, in conjunction with the Naturalization Act of 1790 (which granted instant citizenship to “all free whites”), it essentially elevated those with white skin above those without. Second, it made these now ‘freed’ poor European immigrants think they had more in common with the rich white elite slaveowners rather than the poor enslaved Africans and so they broke off their ties with African slaves. Now the rich white slave owners could control a far lesser number of slaves and didn’t have to fear rebellion or revolt anymore.

    In fact, it was the ability to become instant citizens that prompted large-scale immigration of European ethnics in the 19th and 20th centuries in the first place: which is essentially an early form of whites-only affirmative action. But of course, we never hear about things like this which have given whites such a headstart in this country. Things such as this which have made policies like Affirmative Action for blacks necessary today.

    To understand the root cause behind the enacting of a policy such as Affirmative Action, you have to understand the history that has created a need for it. And to do that in America, that means looking at the history of this country where all policies and benefits were given to whites and only whites and which has given us a 200 year headstart in all aspects of life. To then give another group (blacks) that were not beneficiaries of those 200 years of policies, civil rights in 1965 and then expect them to be on equal footing with us whites after only 40 years is the height of arrogance and obscenity.

    It’s true that the Irish, Italians, and Jews from Russia were horribly discriminated against in the years following their arrival in the U.S. They were subjected to bogus IQ tests intended to prove their lack of mental fitness; they were discriminated against in jobs and housing, and they have been burdened with stereotypes for generations (Irish = drunks, Italians = mobsters, Jews = greedy). But though all of that is true, it is also true that Italians, Irish, and Jews have been accepted into the American family much more dramatically and completely than blacks, or indigenous peoples.

    The sad thing, of course, is that many Italians, like many Irish and Jews fell in line, realized what side of the bread the butter was on, and chose whiteness over the solidarity they had previously felt with their black brothers and sisters, sacrificing their dignity and integrity on the altar of whiteness. In doing so they got a provisional guest pass at the white club and were able to take advantage of the middle class opportunities that, for the better part of the twentieth century, remained off limits to people of color such as the G.I. Bill and FHA/VA loans which essentially created the white middle class.

  9. The Engineer

    “…
    [According to Steven Steinberg, today, just as in the past, some immigrants are becoming “white” while others are becoming “black.”]

    I’m not sure what this means. What is it to be white or be black (outside of obvious skin color)? And how does one “become” one or the other?
    …”
    — quotation of Mike Lovell

    Mr. Lovell,

    I can give you and the readership of The Black Sentinel a modern-day and very sinister example of getting a “white pass.”

    Asian females.

    It is universally known that virtually all Asian females, here in the United States of America, have an automatic “white pass.” You see it everywhere, from movies, books, the press, to the streets.

    And there is a reason for it.

    Has anyone here heard of the expression, “Uncle Tom,” in reference to the book, __Uncle Tom’s Cabin__ by Harriet Beecher Stowe?

    The “white washed” interpretation of Uncle Tom is Uncle Tom was a servant who was dutiful and respectful toward his slavemasters. Uncle Tom was a model servant (model minority?).

    The modern (and more realistic) interpretation of Uncle Tom is Uncle Tom was a sell-out. Uncle Tom would do anything to ingratiate himself to his masters. Anything — including hurting his own.

    This describes most Asian women to a tee, and Asian women will do ANYTHING to keep that “white pass.” If Caucasian women are the progenitors, purveyors, and perpetrators of racism, then Asian women strive to be even worse (after all, they are over achievers).
    They can be meaner and more whorish in order to maintain that “white pass.”

    As a warning to the readership of The Black Sentinel, if you find yourselves in a bank, a government office, some kind of commercial company, etc, and an Asian woman comes up to help you, you just may be better off to ask for assistance from someone else. Her goal is not to help you; her goal is to ingratiate her Caucasian masters. (Of course, if you happen to be Caucasian, then, by all means, let her help you.)

    To be fair, I have seen one (1) article on the Internet in which an Asian female lawyer warns other Asians not to fall into the Uncle Tom trap. She explains that Asians are being used as “whips” on other Minorities. I must admit that she was being very brave to state such a warning. I agree with her wholeheartedly.
    You can bet that her “white pass” has been revoked.

    Be default, immigrants (other than Asian females) are automatically given a “black pass,” and we are in this together.

    I hope this answers your question, Mr. Lovell.

    If you still have questions, then go to the nearest Starbucks, find an Asian female patron. She will be delighted TO PAY FOR YOUR fancy lattee, bat her eyes, and purify herself in front of you.

    You think I am kidding? Just print out this whole commentary and ask her to read it.
    Be sure to get your free lattee first.

    Thank you for listening.

  10. The Engineer,

    That is an amazingly racist series of statements about Asian women.

    Has it never occurred to you that Asians may be victims of the very same racist attitudes and institutions that black Americans have suffered under for centuries?

    Have you never been exposed to the deeply sexist and racist attitudes of traditional white America towards Asian and Asian-American women?

    Asian women do, indeed, frequently find themselves given a “pass” in this society, effectively being seen as white or the equivalent. This is not because of anything which they do — like any other group, this one includes those who seek to ingratiate themselves, those who fight racism at every turn, and those in between. And this “pass” is not necessarily desired or desirable.

    Asian women are treated the way they are for two basic reasons:

    (1) Asian women have been seen for generations as highly sexual creatures. Exotic, alluring, mysterious — these are the qualities which have been ascribed to them by Western culture and literature. They are traditionally viewed as compliant, submissive, and eager to please.

    (2) Asian-Americans, male and female, are trapped in the racist stereotype of the “model minority.” They are portrayed as smart, hard-working, and immune from the racism felt by blacks, Latinos, Native Americans and other minorities. This means that Asian-Americans cannot complain of racism, even if they suffer from it. Moreover, if they fail to fit the stereotype, they will be seen as failures, and will not be taken seriously for the skills and interests which they exhibit.

    For every person who thinks they know how Asian-American women think and act, and why, there is a white person who thinks he knows how blacks think and act, and why. This is rarely a good thing.

    When you stereotype Asian-Americans, you encourage others to stereotype black Americans.

    When you blame Asian-American women for their responses to the racist attitudes they must deal with, you encourage others to do the same with black Americans.

    I’m sure this isn’t what you intended, but I believe your words are deeply harmful, and not only to the group you were targeting.

    (I agree competely with your general point about how immigrants are sorted into existing racial categories, and the dire consequences of this.)

  11. The Engineer

    James,

    I still stand by my words.

    I am afraid that you have misconstrued my stern warning as another racist diatribe. I can assure you that your assessment of my commentary is incorrect. I will explain.

    Please allow me to address your commentary in detail.

    “Has it never occurred to you that Asians may be victims of the very same racist attitudes and institutions that black Americans have suffered under for centuries?”
    — quotation of James

    Yes. We have been and continue to be victims. There is a difference though; most Asians have sold-out. Not all, but virtually all Asian females have sold-out. Some Asian males have sold out, if it means they get to keep their jobs.

    “Have you never been exposed to the deeply sexist and racist attitudes of traditional white America towards Asian and Asian-American women?”
    — quotation of James

    I noticed that you left out ‘men’ in that paragraph. May I presume in your question that you intended to include males and
    females? If so, then the answer is yes, everyday.

    Note: It is very telling that you sub-consciously omitted men in your question.

    “Asian women do, indeed, frequently find themselves given a ‘pass’ in this society, effectively being seen as white or the
    equivalent. This is not because of anything which they do — like any other group, this one includes those who seek to ingratiate
    themselves, those who fight racism at every turn, and those in between. And this ‘pass’ is not necessarily desired or desirable.”
    — quotation of James

    This paragraph is unintelligible, replete with contradictions, and (in my opinion) deliberately obfuscated — translation: you are hemming and hauling, James.

    First they are given a “white pass,” then they do nothing to maintain it, then they do ingratiate themselves, then they do fight racism, and then they do everything “in between.” Make up
    your mind, James. The one thing you got completely wrong is the desirability of the “white pass.” Every minority wants equality (without the “white pass” servitude).
    The question becomes: Does one work for it, does one cheat to get it, does one demand justice for it, does one do anything (including selling-out and hurting others) for it? All
    Minorities must address this question. Caucasians NEVER need to address this question, unless the Caucasian is arguing against Affirmative Action, and in such a case, the Caucasian is a total loser for losing in a system that was tilted in Caucasians’ favor.

    Note: It is very telling that you sub-consciously omitted the word, “white,” from the quoted word, “pass.”

    “Asian women are TREATED THE WAY THEY ARE are for two basic reasons:

    (1) Asian women have been seen for generations as highly sexual creatures. Exotic, alluring, mysterious — these are the qualities
    which have been ascribed to them by Western culture and literature. They are traditionally viewed as compliant, submissive, and eager to please.

    (2) Asian-Americans, male and female, are trapped in the racist stereotype of the ‘model minority.’ They are portrayed as smart, hard-working, and immune from the racism felt by blacks, Latinos, Native Americans and other minorities. This means that Asian-Americans cannot complain of racism, even if they suffer
    from it. Moreover, if they fail to fit the stereotype, they will be seen as failures, and will not be taken seriously for the
    skills and interests which they exhibit.”
    — quotation of James

    The capitalized emphasis is mine.

    So, James, in what way are they treated? Are you referring to their default “white pass?” Is it okay to receive a “white pass” if one is a highly sexualized creature? What is your point to
    Your Point (1)?

    What is your point to Your Point (2)? Everybody here knows about the model minority myth. Guess who invented it? Yes, people
    like you, James. All you have provided with Your Point (2) is another reason why Asian females must maintain their “white
    pass,” by any means necessary.

    “For every person who thinks they know how Asian-American women think and act, and why, there is a white person who thinks he knows how blacks think and act, and why. This is rarely a good thing.

    When you stereotype Asian-Americans, you encourage others to stereotype black Americans.

    WHEN YOU BLAME ASIAN-AMERICAN WOMEN FOR THEIR RESPONSES TO THE
    RACIST ATTITUDES THEY MUST DEAL WITH, you encourage others to do the same with black Americans.”
    — quotation of James

    Not so fast, James.

    You are using the age-old Caucasian method of accusing others of being racist when others are critical of Caucasian racism. You are trying to cast me as bigot of African-Americans. Your
    attempt is laughable. The readership of The Black Sentinel know exactly my position of the issues raised on The Black Sentinel website.
    Nice try, but no brass ring, James.

    The capitalized emphasis is mine in the above quotation of James.

    James, it is clear that you acknowledge the responses that Asian females commit in reaction to racist attitudes directed toward
    them. So, what are those responses? Those responses are the very subject of this commentary:

    “white passes”

    The part with the capitalized emphasis — that is called a Freudian Slip, James.

    Note: It is very telling that you completely ignored the most important two paragraphs to my earlier commentary. I will repeat them here for the benefit of the readership of The Black Sentinel:

    “As a warning to the readership of The Black Sentinel, if you find yourselves in a bank, a government office, some kind of commercial company, etc, and an Asian woman comes up to help you, you just may be better off to ask for assistance from someone else. Her goal is not to help you; her goal is to ingratiate her Caucasian masters. (Of course, if you happen to be Caucasian, then, by all means, let her help you.)

    To be fair, I have seen one (1) article on the Internet in which an Asian female lawyer warns other Asians not to fall into the Uncle Tom trap. She explains that Asians are being used as
    ‘whips’ on other Minorities. I must admit that she was being very brave to state such a warning. I agree with her wholeheartedly.
    You can bet that her ‘white pass’ has been revoked.”
    — quotation of The Engineer

    I still stand by my words.

    The readership of The Black Sentinel may be wondering why this whole line of discussion occurred in the first place. My commentary, James “response,” and my addendum to my earlier commentary were the result of providing Mr. Lovell an example of a
    “white pass.”

    James, may I suggest that you continue to enjoy receiving your free lattees.

  12. The Engineer

    To The Black Sentinel,

    Here is a good weblink entitled,
    “Re-Examining Japanese Americans: From Honorary Whites to Model Minority”
    by David Mura dated May 17, 1996:

    http://www.modelminority.com/article286.html

    An excerpt:
    “…
    The bargain Japanese Americans accepted when they sat with whites was this: ‘We will let you be honorary whites under two conditions: First, you will never be able to drive the bus. Secondly, you must pay no attention to the people at the back of the bus; you must claim no relationship to the people at the back of the bus; and you must absolutely never, ever protest what is happening to the people at the back of the bus. If you do all this, we will pretend to ignore your color. And someone else will always be worse off than you.’

    This bargain is still offered to Asian Americans. When we expect it, we buy into an honorary white status. Other people of color see this. Understandably, it makes them feel resentful and angry toward Asian Americans.
    …”

    And within the weblink, the author describes his own mother’s feelings regarding the Rodney King Riots. I must add that those feelings (or rather, a lack of understanding) form the basis for the motivation of Asian females to fight for that “white pass,” by any means necessary.

    The whole article and the associated commentary are very good to read.

    Thank you for listening.

  13. The Engineer,

    Wow. I was really expecting that you’d want to clarify your original comments, rather than expanding on them.

    To say that “most Asians have sold-out” is factually incorrect, plays to racist stereotypes, and divides us precisely when unity is called for.

    How on Earth do you justify making a claim such as “virtually all Asian females have sold out”? How could you possibly be in a position to judge this? All you’ve offered are such nonsensical fantasies as Asian-American women buying you free coffee.

    I didn’t “sub-consciously omit men” from my rhetorical question. You were complaining specifically about Asian-American women, and so I referred to them in particular. It’s certainly true that men, as well, are victims of racism — and of sexism, although in a very different sense than women are.

    You also write, “This paragraph is unintelligible, replete with contradictions, and (in my opinion) deliberately obfuscated — translation: you are hemming and hauling, James.”

    You desperately need to go back and re-read my paragraph, since you’ve obviously mis-read it. I wrote that the group of Asian-American women includes those who do one thing, those who do another, and those whose behavior falls in-between those two extremes. Your response clearly indicates that you thought I was saying all Asian-American women do all three.

    My point on #1 was that Asian women have been traditionally been treated differently in white society than other non-white peoples (“given a pass,” in your terminology) because they’ve been mythologized as sublimely sexual creatures. This is not something which they have chosen, contrary to your assertions, and it is not a desirable state, either, having dreadful negative consequences.

    My point on #2 was that Asian-Americans are not given a “white pass” in our society, but rather are racialized differently than blacks, suffering stereotypes that are untrue, demeaning, dehumanizing, and highly limiting. The fact that this status offers them more access and status in white-dominated society does not change anything. Your blanket assertions that they must, therefore, be seeking to maintain this status at all costs is hard for me to fathom.

    You write that “people like you, James,” invented the model minority myth. Since I’m arguing that this myth is highly racist, this seems unlikely. Would you care to explain that accusation?

    You also write that I am “using the age-old Caucasian method of accusing others of being racist when others are critical of Caucasian racism.”

    How can this be? You weren’t being critical of Caucasian racism, but rather railing against what you perceive as the behavior of “virtually all” Asian-American women. I, on the other hand, was saying that they are victims of Caucasian racism!

    Would you care to explain this?

    You’re also making wild assumptions about what I believe are the responses of Asian-American women to the racism they face. You seem to think that because I referred to responses, I have “slipped” and agreed with you that virtually all Asian-American women have “sold out,” are “whorish,” etc. Instead, I believe the responses of Asian-American women are varied, and consist not of these behaviors, but of the range of responses which I outlined.

    I apologize for not responding specifically to the two paragraphs you have repeated. The first one illustrates your point with an imaginary scene in a bank. My response is that I can’t believe I’m hearing someone suggesting that (almost) all members of a particular race and gender are to be avoided in a place of business, because they will not “help you,” but instead serve their “masters.”

    If someone were to suggest to us that black bank tellers should be avoided, would we care what the reason was? Or would we simply take that as a poisonous suggestion?

    Your other paragraph says that one Asian-American has argued that Asian-Americans should try to avoid buying into a system which pits one minority against another. I agree wholeheartedly.

    Now, would you care to explain what on Earth you mean by suggesting that I receive “free lattes”? I assume it’s a reference to your imaginary scene in which an Asian-American offers you a free latte in a coffee shop. Since that doesn’t actually happen in real life, please enlighten me: what does that scene mean?

    (Again, I strongly support your effort to educate Mike Lovell, who was unaware that race is a socially-constructed concept in which people can be shifted around to alter power dynamics.)

  14. The Engineer, I think we may see Mura’s essay rather differently.

    I agree strongly with the quoted excerpts. But I believe they don’t mean that Asian-Americans literally struck a bargain with whites, which seems to be what you’re insisting on, at least with women.

    Instead, Asian-Americans were gradually offered a new and distinctive role as a racial minority in this country. In the 19th century, most Asian immigrants were exploited manual laborers, and were subject to lynchings and other forms of violence and brutal discrimination.

    In the 20th century, Asian-Americans have gradually come to be seen by whites as intelligent, hard-working, and readily assimilated into the dominant culture to the point of being harmless (the myth of the model minority).

    This process did not result from any choice by Asian-Americans. Instead, individuals faced opportunities which seemed reasonable at the time — admission to higher education, job opportunities and advancement in line with abilities, rather than racial stereotypes, etc.

    The overall effect, of course, was to give Asian-Americans a “pass” into a carefully limited set of roles within white society. This benefited Asian-Americans to a degree, while sharply limiting their options as well. And it served to reinforce the domination of white society over blacks, Latinos, and Native Americans.

    Asian-Americans such as Mura are calling for people to recognize what has happened, to acknowledge that it involves a metaphorical “bargain” which no one ever knowingly struck, and to act to undermine this racist system of oppression.

    One might even see this as parallel to white racist oppression today. Increasingly since the 1960s, we see fewer and fewer whites who are openly racist, or whose behavior demonstrates deliberate but quiet racism. Instead, more and more whites are participating in a system which, while overtly race-neutral in most ways, nevertheless serves to perpetuate racist institutions and outcomes.

    Just as whites are increasingly calling on one another to recognize the unintended effects of participating in a seemingly race-neutral system, many Asian-Americans are calling on each other to see that merely by working hard and being successful, they may be perpetuating a deadly racist system.

  15. The Engineer

    To The Black Sentinel,

    Let us start with a working definition of a White Pass:

    def. of White Pass: noun. A tacit agreement between a member of Minority Americans and the Majority American Ethos which confers upon the member the opportunity to partake in the benefits of White Privilege.

    Do you remember “Thordady” and his round-about insistence that Affirmative Action was directly tied to Slavery and that White Privilege does not exist?

    I think we are dealing with another kind of “Thordady.”

    I have full confidence in The Black Sentinel and full confidence in the other readers of The Black Sentinel to read my commentaries and associated weblinks and to judge for themselves.

    I also encourage The Black Sentinel and its readership to go about their lives and try to observe life with an eye toward the ideas that I have written regarding the White Pass. Please, when observing, do not get yourselves hurt.

    She captures the essential Asian female in her plight to maintain that White Pass by any means necessary (WARNING to the readership of The Black Sentinel: Much of her material is racist and offensive. I apologize in advance):

    http://www.vdare.com/malkin/index.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Malkin

    An Asian male is very rarely offerred the White Pass, but when he gets one, he makes history:

    http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/4/1/222429/3656

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo

    In this case, it is very bad history.

    James, Just give it a rest, go out tonight and get something to eat. (Oh, don’t forget to have her pay for dinner.)

  16. I just read up on this Michelle Malkin. I already knew that she was an idiot but she is an even bigger idiot than even I thought. She actually said that the internment of the Japanese was a good thing and we should be doing it right now with the Muslims. She is a sick person. And when asked how an Asian could say this, she said she is not Asian, she is American.

    Now if that isn’t telling as to how she views herself and people of her racial group nothing else does. She is a self hating Asian woman. Also, she opposes immigration yet she was popped out the day after her mother came to join her husband who was here on a work visa. And I am sorry, she considers that legal immigration it is not. A work visa does not give you ALL the rights of a legal immigrant. And in fact you are supposed to go back to where you came from after your work visa is over. But alas they had a baby who by right is now an American citizen by birth. So who is she kidding with her immigration stance.

    She is a sickening person and I just can’t even begin to state my dislike for this woman. But thanks for the links even though it causes steam to escape my ears like a cartoon.

    Thanks

  17. This is a really great discussion. I always know I’m going to get good info when I come here, but I must admit I had to go back to the original post to actually remember what the topic was….

    When will those in the white race stop the harassment?

    My answer is simple: Never!

    I use to get extremely worked up when I’d hear the old “blacks need to stop talking about slavery.” During the height of the Jena Six crisis in Louisiana things got volitile on the internet in a blog which will remain unnamed, with a person very similar to guywhite. This person came at me so hard saying, “You’ve never been a slave – you need to get over it.” Excuse me, but the slave owner just happens to be my Great Great Grandfather.

    Dan’s comments were right on point and I thank you for your objectivity. It was refreshing to read.

    I don’t want to go into my true thoughts right now because I’d be here all night writing (about slavery) Black Sentinel said it for me in a nutshell:

    When we are allowed to participate FULLY and be treated equally we will have NO reason to think on the method that has brought us to this continued sub-existence.

    I watched CNN’s highly anticipated Black in America special hoping we black americans would be depicted the way we really live. In the end, my only thought was, “We need to tell our own stories and stop letting the white man speak for us.”

    Thank you for another spot-on discussion of race. I love visiting your blog.

  18. PVDugas,

    I totally understand your feelings. I had to try my best not to have a post that was like three or four pages trying to explain to idiotic people just how much slavery is still a part of all of our experiences.

    Thanks for the reply.

  19. hello theblacksentinel,

    I read brotherpeacemaker’s blog regularly and today I thought I’d click on your blog, so I’m here for the first time. I think this is a great essay, and it fits well with BPM’s most recent one (Room with a view).

    There’s a massive unstated guilt component driving many white folks’ views — it has many convinced that the Civil War really was about “state’s rights” and not at all about slavery — i.e., emancipation was just an end result — and to many white folks, a bad result. Some will try to hide their racist inclination by saying the “bad result” is that the Southern states in the Confederacy lost their bid to preserve their inherent sovereign state right of self-determination. They like to ignore what particular right the Confederate states were seeking to preserve — the right to own slaves. They try to make it about “state’s rights” as a category, but it was not about that vague or noble a purpose. The Confederate states wanted to crack whips and treat people like chattel, to denigrate their humanity. They wanted economic self-determination (plantation economy vs northern industry) but they wanted more than that — they wanted to treat slaves as subhuman, and to profit from that treatment.

    There’s a whole fleet of bad effects remaining in America today, and I don’t care how many ignorant or bigoted (or both) people come back with the “150 years!” argument, the reply I’ll always give is that human dignity requires us to make reparations to those we harm. Blacks in America deserve to be treated as equals, not as marked men and women who are inferior, who are more inclined to commit crime, et cetera. And Americans in total need to treat better the natives who were here before those “Pilgrims” decided to populate the place, before the slaughter of natives became an accepted way of life.

    Our culture has many large blind spots where issues of fair racial and ethnic treatment go, but the most glaring are the treatment of Black Americans and the treatment of Native Americans. That both groups have to suffer harassment from the coppers and the justice system as a whole, and receive sub-standard treatment in the workplace and in many social settings, is something that needs to be fixed.

    And in light of all that, it’s pretty danged obnoxious for our country’s President, or Congresspeople, or other federal officials, to pretend that America has any right whatever to judge the cultures and behavior of any other nation on Earth (Somalia, Congo, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan… the list goes on).

  20. Micah Pyre,

    Thanks for adding to the conversation. I have not one thing to add to that great comment.

    Thanks so much for the reply.

  21. Dan

    Excellent post pvdugas. It makes me crazy when I hear other whites referring to the Civil War as a war about everything BUT slavery.

    They are right about one thing as you said, the Confederacy was established to protect “state’s rights”. But to claim that the war and secession were about state’s rights in the abstract is to ignore precisely which right the South believed was being violated by the North. It sure as hell wasn’t the right to decide the proper recipe for a mint julep or to make moonshine in a backyard shed. Rather (and not a single historian worthy of the title denies it) the right they saw as imperiled was the right to maintain and extend slavery.

    In the words of the Confederate States of America Vice-President Alexander Stephens, if the reasons for secession had to do with the desire to maintain and extend slavery, and that white supremacy was its “cornerstone”, then THAT is the purpose for which the soldiers were fighting. They could have thought they were fighting for apple pie, teddy bears and grits, but it wouldn’t have made it so. Likewise, in the present, soldiers may think that they are in Iraq to avenge September 11, but if so this speaks only to their own self-delusion. It says nothing whatsoever about why they are actually there and why they may ultimately die. Soldiers who find themselves the victims of a monstrous con, whether in the 1860s or nearly 150 years later is regrettable to be sure, but it does not allow us to reinterpret the purposes to which their sacrifices were put.

    That thought may be unsettling to those Southerners who wistfully think about “Ol’ great, great grandpappy Beauregard,” or some other such deprived wretch, but their discomfort in having to confront the truth of the matter hardly makes it any less true. The fact is, great, great grandpappy died for a lie: the lie of white supremacy, whether or not he believed in it (and truth be told, most did, so let’s not add to the lie by assuming that those of us whites with ancestors who fought for the South were above racism). There is no honor in that, and nothing at all worth commemorating, except for using our ancestors as a model for how NOT to behave and what NOT to fight for but rather fight against.

    For those of you out there reading this who still insist the Civil War was not about slavery, do yourselves a favor and consider the following: When Texas announced its secession from the United States, its leaders issued a “Declaration of Causes.” In it was noted that Texas had been admitted to the Union, “as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery — the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits — a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.” The problem, the declaration claimed, was that the Federal Government had sought to exclude slavery from the newly expanding national territories to the West, in effect choking off the economic vitality of the region and “destroying the institutions of Texas and their sister slaveholding states.”

    The declaration continued:

    “In all the non-slave-holding states…the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party…based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern states and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color–a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of Negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and Negro races, and avow their determination to press their crusade against us…”

    The Texas secession delegates went even further than those in most other Southern states, by declaring:

    “We hold as undeniable truths that the government of the various states and of the (federal) confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.”

    As if this were not vile enough, they continued:

    “…In this free government, all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil rights…the servitude of the African race, as existing in these states, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator; as recognized by all Christian nations…”

    Of course, this was not merely the view of Texans who sought secession, but rather, was representative of the views of all the Southern states that broke from the United States. Each and every state made clear the motivations behind leaving the Union, and in each and every instance the reasons given, and in more cases than not the ONLY reason, concerned the South’s perception that the North was trying to undercut and eventually eliminate slavery. They specifically mentioned incitements to insurrection on the part of abolitionists, the refusal to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act and thereby return runaway slaves to their masters, and most prominently the concept that came to be known as “free soil,” which would prevent newly acquired territories and new states from practicing slavery. This, it was claimed, would encircle the slaveholding South and devastate the region’s economy by preventing slavery’s expansion.

    You can read Texas’ “Declaration of Clauses” here: http://www.civil-war.net/pages/texas_declaration.asp

    You can find several states’ “Declaration of Secession” documents on that site. In the interest of saving you hours of reading, trust me when I say the content of their documents are almost identical to Texas’.

    One thing that must be noted is that not all Southerners felt that way. Many white Southerners opposed secession, so mightily in some cases for example, that the Georgia secession vote had to be rigged and troops had to be sent to East Tennessee to force white folks there to go along with breaking from the Union. That is also the main reason why today we have a Virginia and West Virginia. West Virginia broke away from Virginia over the secession issue, led by men and women who saw the cause of a Southern confederacy as illegitimate.

    This kind of information needs to be mandatory teaching in public schools. In my opinion, this is why things such as white guilt, the discomfort of the race dialogue, and general ignorance about our country’s history persist. If whites aren’t forcefed the basic facts, they certainly aren’t going to go out and seek those facts which deconstruct the basis of the system we benefit from, and so many whites are simply ill equipped to engage in such a discussion.

  22. I found your site on technorati and read a few of your other posts. Keep up the good work. I just added your RSS feed to my Google News Reader. Looking forward to reading more from you down the road!

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